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As a recent college graduate, I too, found myself slaving away for what was supposedly going to be "financial freedom". It began like this...
AIL REP: Hello, my name is "insert name here", with American Income, I'm calling in regards to your resume posted online. I'd like to ask you a few questions if you have a moment.
Me: Sure?
AIL REP: Are you currently employed?
Me: No
AIL REP: Who was your most recent employer?
Me: I just graduated college, but I worked there.
AIL REP: Okay, did you have an opportunity to supervise or manage other employees?
Me: In previous jobs, yes.
AIL REP: Great! Let me tell you a little about us...
... and that's where it all began.
I scheduled a personal interview and went to meet with the people who were going to show me how to become financially free. As I arrived for the interview, I noticed that there were several other well dressed individuals that appeared to be interviewing for the same position. The receptionist had me sign in on a list following several other people who had their names, phone numbers, and then another random name by them. Again, this seemed very odd to me. As I waited I started a conversation with the person next to me about what they had applied for. They told me that they didn't know which seemed odd yet again, but gave me some sort of comfort being that I was no longer alone.
As we sat and waited for our interviews, more and more people kept coming in asking about interviews, but these people had ranged from other business looking professionals, to high school students, to construction workers covered with mud in overalls. As these people came in, others were shown either out the door or into what appeared to be a group interview. This place looked like a machine, people in, people out.
I was called for my interview, so I got up and walked with the gentleman, but was curious as I did not get to meet with the person that I spoke with on the phone, I got to meet with one of the managers. I felt pretty good about this as he said that he had already read over my resume and I looked like a great fit for the company and that I would make 50-60k first year and well over 100k each year after that. I was still not sure what the job was all about, but the money sure was enticing. I was passed onto stage two, the group interview.
Transitioning my way from the first interview to the second yet again seemed odd. Something just wasn't right but I couldn't place my finger on it. When I walked into the room for the group interview there were three other men in suits that were filling out some paperwork. I again struck up conversation as we waited only to find that none of us had any idea what we were doing there, but again, none of us wanted to argue with the money.
After waiting for twenty minutes or so, a confident well dressed man entered the room and said that he was the state director and he was going to give us a run through on how the company worked. He started telling us about how successful he was and how he started the company and bla bla bla... I started to fade away as he started going from confident to arrogant and obnoxious drastically quick. What I took from this group interview was how to make money, and this is where I found out that it was on a strict commission basis. I had never worked on commission and I felt uneasy about this, but as a recent college grad, I felt that I could accomplish anything.
After wasting an hour listening to the state director go off about not settling for "meterocracy" yes, I know how I spelled that, he actually said "meterocracy". He also mentioned that he gets "flusterated" yes, "flusterated". Was he making up words or was he just that dumb? I left the group interview and went home thinking about the money.
A couple days later I got a call about coming in for a third interview. I accepted the invite, thinking only of the money, still not 100% sure what this company did. When I went in for the third interview, the interviewer asked me when I could start making money and that was it, couldn't they do this over the phone? Oh well, a pointless meeting, but I got the job.
Very similar to many other complaints on this company I found myself in the "boot camp" period. This is where my social live took a dive, my family worried about me, and my girlfriend at the time started questioning my judgment. I don't have all day so I'll hit the most painful parts of the "job". During boot camp I was in training around 25 hours a week and I was "required" to ride along with other agents to learn what they were doing, this was roughly another 10 more hours a week. On top of this I was required to come into the office in the mornings and "learn how to be a manager" which consisted of making phone calls to prospective employees. At this time I realized why I was called. I was handed a stack of 100 resumes and told that before I went home, I had to set 15 interviews for that week. So I prepared to call and then I was told that they had to give me a copy of what to say to get people in for interviews. I though this was weird because it seemed like we had to coax people to come in for interviews. I was handed a script (yes a script) the same thing that I was told over the phone.
I called all morning, and not being a person that particularly liked the phone, this was not something I wanted to do. I called from 8:30 to roughly 2:00 and set a few, not the required fifteen. I stuttered on the phone and was not confident that I wanted to do this any longer and it showed on the phone, I was not good.
This went on for two weeks, the calling, the training, the ride alongs and I was still yet to make a dime. In fact, I had to pay for union dues, a test prep class, and an insurance test which ended up being around $250. That is a lot of money for someone that just graduated college and has not been paid for work that they have done for two weeks. I kept asking myself, why I was doing this, but the promise and the lure of making 60k was on my brain.
As time went on and I kept coming in doing work for free, my friends and family were asking how much money I was making and other questions of the sort and I had to explain why I had been working for almost a month and had not made any money. I tried to come up with a reason, but couldn't. I felt like an idiot.
Throughout training I would ask questions and would frequently get the reply "You're too smart, just dumb it down a little". I had a difficult time "dumbing it down" so my manager told me that we were dealing with union people, they are not that bright, just get the sale. It's all about ALP. Keep it simple, stop giving them so many choices. ALP = Annual Life Premium
Back to the office...
I had started to learn the swing of how things worked and found that if someone calls you, and you come in for an interview and sign on, they become your manager. Huh, I thought, who is my manager? I asked around and found out that the guy who called me didn't get me and I went to one of the more experienced managers. The guy who called me realized that he wasn't making any money and left the company after a month. I then asked where the people were that I called in and why wasn't I a manager as there were three people that I called in that had signed on to work at the company. I was told that I was still in training and everyone I called went to the manager ahead of me. Sounded fishy, it felt wrong, but I passed it off as "paying my dues" BIG MISTAKE.
I continued to "pay my dues" for a couple of months and was full of anger that I was being taken advantage of, yet, I stayed with the company and decided to stick it out. Heck, I got this far, it must get better.
Long story short, nearly a year later I had seen agents come and go and found myself very high on the seniority latter in this branch. I asked where everyone else was before me and I was told that they were all promoted and moved out of state. That seemed a convenient get away answer as there was no one that could contradict what they had told me as I was very high on the seniority list and no one to contend.
In my time working for American Income Life I had counted over 30 agents had come and gone in the first two months and I couldn't see why. As time when on, so did the newness of the company and the "opportunities". I made a decent living while I worked there or so I thought(see below), but I was required to drive 8 hours away from home and stay in hotels frequently.
(from above) What they never told you... some of it anyway. You pay for all of the following... transportation (including gas), your own office supplies, you must pay union dues that you never get anything from, and office rent, yes office rent. After I calculated it out, I was nearly sick. I found that I had paid $200 per month to rent an office that I got no money for working out of. I paid under $50 per month for union dues. I also paid just shy of $4/gallon for gas that I spent driving to the homes of my appointments for which there was a %50 no show ration. Please read that again. %50 no show ratio. I spent all that money and saw what I thought to be a nice paycheck. I did not net much money while working here and I certainly have had a difficult time regaining my social life.
Other random things that happened while I worked there.
I was advised to give other agents my business.
I was told that women were not good workers, so don't rely on them.
I witnessed management get rich and screw everyone else.
The state director made sexist comments on women, daily.
The state director made sexual comments about female workers.
The state director made advances on my girlfriend.
The state director made sure that everyday we knew how much we sucked at what we did and we were not helping his net worth.
The state director told us on a regular basis that we were going to be "taken out", whatever that meant.
Much much more...
If you get a call from American Income Life, don't waste your time. I feel as if I have lost a step and my vocabulary has diminished after this unfortunate experience. I was promised that I would be out of the field after six months yet after nine months I was working harder then before, and getting yelled at more. The painful amount of verbal beat down that we would get daily is just short of abuse. No matter what you did earlier that week, you always needed to do more. If you wanted a day off, you were a fool. If you wanted two days off, you were on the brink of being fired. If you choose to work here, you are entering a prison. Your manager will need to know where you are and what your doing 24/7. I know, I was with this company and saw how it works from many angles. Leaving before a "promotion" to M.G.A. left me with enough bad memories to post this and reveal A.I.L. to anyone that asks. Please don't feed the machine, you will regret it.
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Wow!
You describe just how they contacted me. I am an Engineer who goes out on Contracts and works for Power Plants. It is not unusual for someone to call me if they have a need or position. So I was thinking they needed a designer or detailer to do their work for them. I do redlines, logics, markups, as builts etc. After about twenty minutes into the presentation, I finally realized what this was, a pyramid scheme. I had nothing to gain or loose by sitting there. But what un nerved them was my direct questions to the Director in Charge. I told him I won't sell something to a middle class worker I personally don't believe in and I won't lie to get a sale. I then questioned his Integrity and does he believe in what he sells. He could see that I was asking the wrong questions and the group I was with was listening intently to what was going to come out of his mouth next. He then, stuttered and said what do you mean. I said, will you lie to get a sale. You just mentioned in your speech that your best salesman will sell cancer to a patient dying from cancer. He did some heavy back tracking, and said oh I was using that as an example we don't really sell like that. He lost that crowd, that evening, and I gained some wisdom. Thank you for spelling this out. Two red flags, what was I there for? and why did they contact me in the first place?
hi!,
I was just contacted by AIL Canada yesterday and i am very reluctant to go through with it after having read this. I am curious as to how much money you actually made per month..They said i could make between 60-90. please reply back as i have to get back to them today.
I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to post this information. I am a licensed insurance broker in the martime provinces of Canada and I had received their email yesterday requesting that I contact their agent for more information. I got the same lines about being able to make a very healthy $100k + within my first year. When I contacted the agent for information and started asking him which position he was hiring for, as I was already a fairly well paid agent with another reputable insurance agency and did not want to waste my time chasing an entry-level position, he couldn't answer me, which struck me as very odd. I then came online to do some research on the company, without having scheduled an interview, and found this post, along with MANY others saying the same. I will gladly stay where I am, with an insurance agency that pays mileage, training and for your certification, as well as an employee discount AND any necessary incurred incidentals. You have saved myself, and probably countless others, from wasting their time with this scam. Once again, Thanks!
I've spent the past several hours reading blogs about AIL. I've also looked on the BBB website and Snopes.com. Both came up clean. I was contacted last week for and interview 10/14/08. No doubt there were a lot of people in the waiting room (look at the economic situation of this country the room should be full). I noticed several people were "weeded out". The past three years I've been in business for myself and would have sent these people packing as well. I am on the fence about several of thses blogs. Some are half true and some are complete lies to what I was told. I was told that I wouldn't have paid training, I would have an office to work from with supplies a phone and internet for free. I was told that I would have to pay for my own license and training (around $750) and the amount of income I made would depend on me. Having owned my own business for a few years I understand that everything in life doesn't come to you on a silver platter. If you want something new in your life you have to change something you do in your life. Looking at the half empty glass of water will never change until you turn it upside down. I have my third and final interview tomorrow and have written out about 50 questions that I plan to get direct answers from. Questions that have arose from reading all these blogs. Putting a little doubt in my mind. But then there is the doubt that maybe this wasn't for you. Maybe AIL did a poor job of recruiting all you negative thinkers into a career you wouldn't do well in. The bottom line is everyone posting here could be (like one person said) pissed off becuase they didn't get hired, pissed off becuase they couldn't cut it and just want to have others to join the wagon. Misery likes company! I would imagine the people that complained about not making the $100K in the first year might have been waiting for it to drop in their laps. I'm sure they have a GYM membership (but never go) exspecting to get thinner. I have enjoyed reading all of the blogs it will really help me to make a more informed choice but I will go through with the final interview tomorrow and ask my questions. If I'm not satisfied with them I'll pass I've already passed on a company called Alliance for Affordable Services with a similar sales pitch. I liked AIL the best and liked the information provided to me. We were all encouranged to do our own homework, do our own research. Knowing that there are sites out there like this one what company would tell people to look deeper into them than a one sided approach? Only a comapny that has been around for 50 plus years without advertising. I have a hard time understanding how a comapany can be around for this long and have so many negative complaints all within about a year of each other. Sounds to me like you negative thinkers didn't do your homework all you heard was $60-$100K and thought everything else was puppy dogs and rainbows. I've already done a lot of research and a lot of qestioning and have had many of the questions answered that you folks say were never told until you were hired (or in training). So did you only hear $$$$$$$$$ instead of the real truth. It's a shame that this company could be a great company to work for but people like you prevent other people from ever finding out by putting doubt in thier mind. If I'm wrong tomorrow I will come back to this site and post a response, hell even if I'm right I will.
The statements below are my opinion.
Well I do have some words to eat. I just finished with an hour long interview in the San Diego office of American Income Life. After doing my research and homework I established a list of questions I needed answers to. After all they tell you this is a career not a job. Would you just jump into a job without knowing about it? NO! So why would you jump into a career that you know nothing about. I asked more questions in the interview than the interviewer asked me. I'm not just looking to work somewhere I want to work where I enjoy myself. I asked the questions about a lot of the blogs; i.e. how much time on an average week will I spend calling clients, how many hours will I put in when I start? How many hours do you work per week? (He was a manager and replied over 60). If this company is so great and it's so easy to sell this product than why the hell do managers and agents need to work 60-70 hours per week to make a solid income. A few questions to ask yourself if you are considering this company.
1. If i'm so great and would be so great at this job why can't you pay me a salary until I build up my client base?
2. Why do I need to pay for you $250 for the 52 hour class when you can get it online for $190?
3. Why do they interview every week? I asked how many people worked in the office, he said about 25-30 but they have been interviewing every week for a few years. That tells me a high turn over rate.
4. Do they want me only becuase I want them first? Like the girl in high school that never noticed you until you noticed her and then she's head over hells in love with you...
5. Do you find it a little odd that you're asked to bring money to the third interview? Why don't they just tell you you're hired and it's your first day? It's a little odd that your asked to pay for something you're not even sure you want to sell. They breeze over the highlights in 2 hour training but most of that "training is a sales pitch to you".
Do youself a favor and act like you question the intentions a little in the interview, or tell them your a little excited about it and see how they react. "well maybe this isn't for you", will surely be the reply.
I have no doubt this company will work for some people. The people it will work fro probally fall under certain guidelines. The guidelines are listed below.
1. Have no family in the area or any family that you may want to visit in the next 2o years
2. Be a work-a-holic.
3. want for nothing else in life but to get up and go spend 10-12 hours a day at work.
4.You must have no wife or kids that you plan to spend quality time with, unless it's a mail order bride.
5. Be willing to surender all human rights, you're fill out a 1099 so you are a sub-contractor. It's your choice to be there. You may be treated in a way you may not be comfortable with.
If none of these things both you and YOU want to work for them they will want you.
Even if you are still considering this (as I was last night) just make sure you sit down read these blogs and come up with your own set of questions to ask. You will see the direction of the interview will take another spin. They will wait for you to "show your hand" before they offer the job. They don't want to be left out to dry, they want to make you feel like you wern't good engough for them, not the other way around. Just do your own research like they encourage you to do and ask the right questions about the job. They are honest with you about that. I think the people that were changed most by this company didn't do any homework and didn't know what they were getting into. As I said before this can work it just needs to be the right person willing to put life on hold in so many other areas. Good Luck
I am so glad I read these blogs and comments BEFORE going to my interview. My wife suggested I look at the company website to see what they were about. The first google hit was the company website and the second was these blogs. I had a little time before my interview, so I read.
I already had a bad feeling about them. I found it odd that someone would call me out the blue saying they saw my resume on Monster and I was a "right fit". My resume is filled with safety and loss prevention jobs. My degree is in Occupational Safety and Health. Why would these people be calling ME for an interview?
I made up my mind that if anything looked out of the the ordinary...i.e. if someone asked me for my SSN, I was leaving. I also did not want to sell insurance door to door, but I would have for the right money.
After reading these blogs, some of my suspicions were confirmed. And things I never would have thought about were brought to my attention. I think some of the things people stated on these complaints were exaggerated a bit, but this is good information for people who may get these calls for interviews. You can do like the other commenter John and go to your interview with questions that will prepare you in the event you are given a job. I was not sold on selling insurance or going to an interview where someone says I am a good fit, yet I have no selling experience anyhow, so these comments talked me into staying home today.
dude get a life or a clue. i have been with the company for over 4 yrs now and i started when i was 20. i have made 80k a yr with no prob seems like you just lack the sales ability to make it not just with american income but in the insurance industry in general.
I have been working at AIL and am bringing my thoughts to the table, which are mixed right now. I started the job because a relative's friend does it in another state and absolutely loves it and makes great money. In the month I've worked here, I average around $600 a week, which to me is not great money, and I have a background in sales and a history of sales success. The frequent no shows and the many office hours (meetings and phone time) have definetely gotten the best of me. Many of the homes that I go to in this area are very low income people, and my husband has been worried that it might not be a safe job. However, I am going to give it another few weeks and I hope this is just a learning curve. Honestly, I can' t say I am having fun by driving excessively to people's homes when they are not there half the time, or when the other half of the time they are there, they can not afford a dime. However, because I know someone who does well, I am sticking to it for a little while longer in hopes of things turning around and the ability to really make the $ I thought I would make
Well folks, I was almost duped! The lure of receiving 60-80K a year propelled me to consider giving up graduate school and the path I had envisioned for myself to become an AIL agent...good thing I read these posts!
I have a Bachelor's degree in communication-a fitting major for sales in many respects-and never considered working with insurance until AIL contacted me about a week ago. After reading many blogs about the company, I was shocked to discover that I was fed the same exact dialogue as everyone else...red flag number one! The second red flag: having a receptionist contact me out of the blue saying AIL found my resume on Monster.com...I never posted it there! I should have trusted my gut at this point, but, desperate to get a job after completing college, decided to make the trip from Davis to Concord for a series of interviews.
What a waste! The "interviews" I underwent lasted for a total of three hours, where the majority of the time was spent explaining how "wonderful" the company was and all the money one could hope to accrue in a "very short" period of time. I was asked no in-depth questions and was called for a final interview...I could have lied and have been an axe murderer for all they knew! (another red flag...desperation to recruit new agents!). In the hour and a half I spent at the "group interview" I learned little about the actual process new agents were required to complete and mostly about how grand and successful AIL is as a "Fortune 500 Company"...which is BS, I researched this as well!
And here's something really important to note, especially if you currently have little expendable income: you have to PAY for all the licensing requirements and extras necessary BEFORE you can begin work. Plan on making NO money for 4-6 weeks (and I imagine even longer after all the shadowing is completed) prior to starting out in the field...this would present some challenges, wouldn't you say?
After spending several hours reading the pros and cons of this company I still say they are not to be trusted and for those who are looking for consistent, reliable work with appropriate compensation to move on and ignore any AIL phone calls. If you are the type of person who is of a more entrepreneurial mindset or who is a work-a-holic, by all means join the team. For the rest of us normal folks who just want some stability, AIL is all smoke and mirrors.
OMG! Google is a woderfull thing! I got the same call everyone else did. I am a business owner and as the economy speeds downhill, so does my business. I've managed at many places and many people. As everyone else on this site, I was suspicious about this interview. It was all to wrong. I told the person that called me "I am not a salesman and don't plan on being one either". She assured me the interview was for a "management" position. Thank you for all of you that have posted your info on the site. I feel bad for those of you that have been duped. You sound like honest people trying to find a decent job making decent money just like I am. It's a tough life out there right now and we don't have time to waste on BS like AI. I will NOT be showing up for my interview due to the comments I've read for the last hour. Thank you all, and thank you Google!
I have read a lot of these complaints and all of them are true. I worked for AIL in Renton, Washington for three months until I went broke and sat in on endless lies in the field.
Two AIL agents left the company and went to work for AFLAC in Renton Washington which was the best career move I have ever made! I have a very good income with $$$ olling in while training as well as Sales Managers working in the field with you until your up and running for yourself. YEAH, you make the money and get the account for yourself not their's.
I'm going to tell you, if you are licensed and want to work for a highly reputable company, go chat with an AFLC Manager. If your here in Seattle or South Seattle give me an e-mail I would love to chat with you. By the way, it's only B2B work and it's 8-5 and no weekends.
Check me out john.barrows@live.com tell me you want an interview. If you know others just loet them know I'm hiring and training.
I sent an E0mail straight to the person who contacted me inserting some of the information you all have given me. I was just on my way to the Third interview that had been set up mysteriously on a Saturday morning. Between my mother and father-in-law searching the new, you all and them have saved me much trouble and hard time. I am just about to get married and this would be heart breaking for me and my future family. I thank you all and hope your lives are better now that you are out of this unfortunate situation. I will be looking in to the prosecution of this company, being that my fater is in the law field, maybe we can get this problem fixed. Thank you all for your guidance. I am truthfully greatful to you!
Thank You,
Mislead and Greatful
I really wish I would have thought to come to this message board before I spent my 275.00. I am scheduled to take my test next week but I don't know how that's going to go. I live in Oklahoma City and am currently a licensed bondsman. The Insurance Commissoner regulates insurance agents just like it does bondsmen . If I do not get to take my test next week I do believe I will file a complaint with the Insurance Commissioner. I am unemployed at this time and I had to borrow the 275.00 because they said I had to have it in by Monday and it was friday afternoon when I was told this. Also I was sent home last week because I did not have on the "proper attire"
I presently work for AIL and I too wanted to share my thoughts concerning the company. I believe that the company as a whole has their share of failures. The business itself is a lot of hard work. you have to deal with reckless managers. The problem I believe they have is the mentality. You are only a good person with them when you are selling. When you are off/not producing you are a outcast. Their managers are inexperienced and just high producers. They need to streamline their promotions. Promotions at AIL are based on performance and not skills. So you have a ton of young hustling, no kids, no life, high producing individuals who become your manager and they have no clue on how to deal with people. In this present economy you have to learn to deal with all types of folks and unfortunately they are not trained to do so. So if you were a person that did extremely well in your last profession and were let go due to no fault of your own and now have to "start all over again" this may not be the company for you. Either than that it is what you make of it. There is just too much focus on how to get sales at any cost rather than focusing on the individual to make them successful in that business. Their system is somewhat faulty and like the other person above said you are required to work some very rough hours with the promise to make 80-90K in the long run. But I'll say again like the other person said. There are some people there doing some big things and once you find your niche or groove with them you can make a lot of money...if that is your goal.
WOW! Thank god I read these. I got the very same call yesterday and thought maybe I had applied to it through Craigslist (They did not give me a clue where they got my resume from) because most companies do not tell you who they are. I decided to do some research seeing as how I knew very little about the company and did not want to going in looking stupid! I guess I have gotten really smart in the last 15 minutes of reading your posts! I will not be going to my interview tomorrow at 10 a.m. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Well Everyone...
I almost did it too. I ran the gauntlet of interviews, and beat out the competition to get The OFFER. I thought it was wierd that on the day I accept the job offer, Ihad to hand over $560 bucks to cover my training and licensure. Thanks for posting this. I'm going back to school.
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/careers-601428-American_Income_Life;_ylc=X1MDMzk2NTExMzc4BF9yAzIEbGlkA0hKMTAwVG9wQ29tcGFueQ--?ultsrc=HJ100§ion=TopCompanyList
What is not legit about a fortune 400 platnium company with an A+ superior rating with AM best (the best rating to achieve) and a company that was just listed as the top 37th company to work for in america by yahoo hotjobs 2009 . The only company on that list that provides supplemental benefits to the working class man. The company doesn't advertise because they made an agreement with the union board to not advertise to help keep the cost down. SO do some real research based on facts rather than opinons and reading peoples slander!
I work for AIL and all you who have bashed my company have NO idea what your talking about. Probably your a little upset about the fact that you couldn't cut it... This job is only made for certain people. I am paid to the dime what I am worth. And honestly...if we we re to tell you on the phone that you were interviewing to sell life insurance...would any show up? Thats a definite ...no! Once you have the opportunity to listen to the career briefing your pre conceived notions for "life insurance agent" might change. As did mine... considering I have made over $50, 000 in 6 months. You peolple need to stop complaining and go find a job that you can handle... I heard Mc Donalds is hiring...
To emjwilso:
First off, go **ck yourself. You say that you are "paid to the dime" what your worth. Based off your post I would say you're worth no more than a dime. Way to come on here and bash other people for offering their factual experiences with AIL. No wonder no one wants to work for AIL, they have [censor]s like you writing crap like this. Way to be an ambassador for the company and showing how employees of AIL really think. Go back to your hole and enjoy your brief time with AIL.
Grow up! There's no need to be so vulgar. I'm just putting down my "factual experience". Go back to your hole...That's mature. Way to keep acting like a child.
Thank you sir.
You have just saved me what is apparently more valuable than money: my life. I was actually going to continue on with this program but I was starting to get a little suspicious myself. I have seen many different scam like attractions from employers of college students and I wasn't sure if this was another one of them. Thanks to you, I am done with it.
My name is Anthony Osborne, CFO of American Income Life and Regional Manager in Southeastern TN. Need help learning how to work your way up in this company? shoot me an email: anthony-osborne@utc.edu... I collect a salary of over a million per year and I can teach you the tricks!
Thanx all for your postings, yes i got the same phone call and statements, you have saved me a lot of wasted time...isn't there a law against this type of 'business'?