PMI Education review: SCAM 27

I was contacted by PMI and convinced me to sign up for the program. First they ask you about your income and if you have credit cards, how many, what’s the limit on all of them and how much balance you have. Then they use that information against you to sell their services. They sold their services and made you believe they will help 100% if you join them. After the first call a second person contacted me in regards to the first call and made it sound I was one of the few who would qualify for their services. Based on my financial information I provided with my first call they told me it would cost me $5795 to start up. I went ahead and signed up and I was promised that a coach would contact me the following day. Sure the next day a coach followed up and just gave me a brief tour about their web training site. I had already done my personal tour and then we scheduled for a next session. He told me that part of starting my business I would have to do lots of paperwork with filling my taxes and suggest part of their business partners to contact me. A week later someone from tax club contacted me and convinced me that they will do all the paperwork for my business and help me with tax cut and filling for year taxes etc. Fortunate before I agreed I decided to do research and I found a lot of consumer reports many of them where really bad news. 3 days later tax club called me and tried to sign me up by giving them $2600 plus $49.95 membership monthly fees. I declined their offer. That was the end of it and I did not get any follow up call from my assigned coach. Three weeks later I get a call from somebody else asked me if I wanted to open an online business, I was under the impression that its part of the continuing service. I told them yes and I was passed on to another representative. I was asked the same questions like the first time about my finances and me being honest enough I did tell them my actual finances and the and 2 out of my 3 credit cards where maxed out, and my 3ed card was $300 shy from maxing out as well. The guy told me that I could join their services if I give them $300 and they would finance me a total of $2000. The whole deal would cost me total of $2300. The guy who interviewed me was about to transfer me to the finance dept and I cut him short because I was tied up, and told him to call me 2 hrs later to continue the process. Before I dropped the call I asked him a question what company where you calling from and he told me PMI. I was shocked after talking to him and only to find out I was offered the same service the second time for half the price. 2hrs passed and I did not receive any call then I called the guy who I original spoke with earlier and played stupid and told me " he had no idea that I was already enrolled with their services" I then proceeded and asked him how come I was charged double before and you are offering the same service for half the price? He was quick enough to tell me that I have to talk with customer service, he purposely avoided my questions and kept on saying "I cannot help you talk with customer service.” further on I was directed to customer service and I expressed my frustration. The lady from customer service said there is not much she can do, that quality assurance department would give me a call. I asked her directly when they will give me a call she mentioned that turn around call will be 2 days. 2days went on and past and I still did not get a call. I then went on and followed up with customer service and the second rep forwarded me to some guy and I left multiple messages. My call was returned 5 hours later. the next day I called the same guy who left a message on my phone and I proceeded and asked why was I charged $5795 and I was offered the same the same services if I give them $300 and finance $2000 based on my financial situation. He tried to cover it by saying there was some sort of misunderstanding and that the programs where not the same, he kept on continuing trying to convince me that I am getting more for my money. I told him I did not believe what he was telling me and I wanted my difference back or total refund of my money. He then became defensive and argued with me over the phone that I heard wrong and there is no such. I asked him if there was such a difference in services why I wasn’t offered that option in the beginning. he responded " you did not need that option" I went ahead and asked him I want the difference from what I paid at first and he exchange words with me and told me that I cannot get my refund because I past 3 days. I expressed myself how unhappy I was with the service because I only got a total of 3 calls for my coach and I was left hanging. I did all the leg work with no follow up and asked him again I want my refund because I did not appreciate how I was treated and how I was scammed. He went on arguing that there will be no refund. I was very upset and told him there was nothing to talk about then. Today I decided to go on the website. I entered my user name and my password only to find out I can no longer access my account online. I am very very upset with PMI education, the whole experience is a nerve wreck, not only they scammed me $6000; they also block me accessing my account.

Whell, whell.
I thank you very much for your review, cause i've been called the last 4 weeks by these guys and the first time they asked me the same question as by you. How much is on your credit card, what whould you choose to invest in your business and so on. But i did just not believe that i would be someone that is chosen to be the lucky one and get help from such a firma as PMI. I also asked myself questions about the first call. A kind of salesman called me that he is from www.123cashformula.com and now whants to offer me help in their program with PMI.
I thougth, huh strange, i never purchased www.123cashformula.com and i never had heard of PMIeducation and i totaly not understand what is the connection between those 2 .

So i don'tn answer now there phonecalls and in my voicemail the speak in with a frustated voice that they realy want to help me.. whell yes, helping me to get of my money..

So this is my story and now i know enough.

Steven from The Netherlands

We went to a seminar and they sold us a web site for 50.00 and then had to go to another seminar in Columbus Ohio. There they wanted to sell us a 6, 000.00 or 3, 000.00 program. Thankfully my husband is a negative person and knows nothing about the internet so he thought they were a scam so we left after our free lunch. Then 1or 2 days thye called offering us abetter deal asking same questions as above and we were the select few that they can help because we want to better ouselves. We talked then someone from finance called and gave us the good news. Said we could go online and lcheck them out. We did and guess what we found these comments. Fortunatly I didn't give any cc numbers and told him it would be Tuesday before I could transfer funds and we haven't heard from them since. Maybe they've gottenthe idea

Thank you! I just got done talking with someone from the finance department and said I would have to pay $3249 for their service. Before this, someone contacted me and said I was one of the select few who was going through an interview to receive free services from their program without paying the tuition but once I become successful, I must be willing to give testimonials for future books. The guy who called me asked about my financial situation, credit card debts, student loan debt... then said I didn't qualify for the free services but that he'll make a recommendation to the finance program so that I wouldn't have to put much money down for the cost of their program. I asked how much was the cost and he avoided giving me the number and instead gave me some dumb information I didn't ask about. Am I glad to not have given over the "minimum" investment of $299 for the program and pay off the remaining $3000 over a course of a "few" months. When I proceeded to inquire how could I make that much additional income to pay off $3249 in the next few months, the finance department guy answered, "I'm not a coach so I don't know how to answer your question. But we have investors lined up to help you get there." Okay, next question I was going to ask was why would investors want to put their money with a person like me, but decided to ask if they consider the credit scores of their students. The finance guy said "don't worry about that. If you had good credit you'd be out there financing your own loans and would have no problem." I was insulted that he presumed I had bad credit, and my red flag told me to hang up asap 'cause we all know that no investors in their right mind would invest in people with bad credit scores. I almost got scammed! If they call back, I'll be sure to decline any services and asked to be put on their DO NOT CALL LIST!

I signed for a Probate Contract Trainng with a Company known as ITS Training / PMI Education.com. The cost that I paid for this training was $6, 680 dollars. They offer this very special probate training which would include a system software capable of connecting to any township and or courthouse to obtain probate data in order to process contracts. Along the training which included advisors, they were to follow up with the training steps.

The results is that the system software did not connect to any township or courthouses for obtaining probate data or contracts. The so call training had problems. The Webinars that I scheduled, did not had a leader or other students. Therefore there was no trining.

Also there was a CPA training Company that wanted another $4, 700 dollars with a monthy payment $49.95 a month.

At this time I am correlating and documenting my short 9 day experience with American Express to assist me in cancelling this FRAUD commited by ITS training or pmieducation or whatever they want to call themselves.

I signed on with PMI and have had a great experience with them. I was never asked how much money I made, or if I made any money. As far as a credit card, the only time I had to give that information was when I agreed that I wanted to take the Affiliate Marketing Course and was given the option of paying monthly for the training course fee. I was never hounded about joining their program. In fact, once I was contacted by them through another marketing course I had applied to for a nominal fee of $25.00, I called them back after hearing what they had to offer and joined then after I researched the program. The coaches are always ready to help you through any challenges you have and I am thankful that I was lucky enough to join their team. It's been a great experience so far and I do not see how that will change in the future.

I ordered Anthony Morrison's materials only to see if any of his techniques could be applied to my own business, which has been operational since 1991. About a week after receiving the items, I began to get phone calls from PMI EDUCATION. It was immediately apparent the ONLY things this organization had interest in were how much money I make, how many credit cards I have, and what are the limits on them. The various "interviewers" constantly made it a point to tell me that only a select few would qualify, and if I was selected, I would need to, "sit back and let us guide me through about 6 months of training. They also constantly told me I would need to be "open minded", and would need to "invest" anywhere from $5, 000 to $15, 000 (yes, THOUSANDS) in their training to ensure my success.

Out of curiosity, I actived the Morrison Website using a fake social security number, and I STRONGLY advise everyone to use a fake one if you want to check out the site. This organization is a scam out to take your money. Do you really want them to have your SS number and credit card info?

It's interesting that the company Morrison raves about in his autobiography, Cool Blue Performance, is out of business. He started trying to sell it in 2004, and the website is not inactive. Go to Google, and search coolblueperfornance, and read about all the scams this company pulled on people. After that, Google PMI Education Scam (also other variations of PMI) and see how many have been ripped off by this organization.

People, the only thing PMI wants is your money. This is nothing more than a boiler room operation with slimy slick telemarketers, and I'm betting any positive comments about the organization were posted by these slime-balls in their spare time. Save your money. Stay as far away from PMI as you can. They will tell you they only accept a few students, and you may not qualify, but the truth is if you're still breathing, have credit cards, and are stupid enough to give them your card info, you will "qualify" -- as an idiot. If Morrison or PMI puts any unauthorized charges on your credit cards, or rip you off in other ways, contact the Utah Better Business Bureau, and an attorney.

I wish I had seen this before I had gotten the 3rd call from PMI promising free coaching for 6 months. I got taken for thousands and am still trying to work through this with the Utah BBB and the FTC. Here's a link to my story (yes, I know I was stupid and gullible) but I had just been laid off and this seemed like an answer to a prayer:

http://scambuster108.blogspot.com/

I have just verified that PMI issued a full refund and I have no further or ongoing complaint against PMI.

Scambuster108

Scambuster 108, would you mind telling how you were able to get them to refund your money?

Interested 1794

i am glad i never signed up for this scam. my dad saw an ad on TV about this scam and when i saw the ad on TV, i knew right away that this was nothing but a scam. my dad wanted to try it out and he went to this website that he saw on TV activatemywebsite.com by that scammer Anthony Morrison and signed up for it, the next day, they called up and as soon as i saw them call, i knew they were nothing but a scammers and/or a bunch of scammers trying to scam people out of their money and i just hung up on them, they kept calling about a dozen times or more. whats worse? my dad ended up giving my cell phone number away to these low life of a scammer/scamming company. to all that is reading this, this company is a scam and it will steal your hard earned money. do not sign up for this and do not think about trying this out. i will definitely get my dad to cancel his 3 day trial with this scam company otherwise i will have to get him to call up his credit card company and get them to cancel the card and send out a new one. stay away from this company. if they call you, hang up on them and do not answer your phone, whether it is a home phone or a cell phone. but i do definitely agree with No Jesus of God in what he or she says about this company.

My friend fell for this scam a few months ago. I am here on the internet trying to find out how to help him get a refund and stop the monthly deductions from his checking account. Has anyone spoken with a customer care rep that has been willing to workout a refund?

The sad thing is he is on disability/limited monthly income and was trying to find a way to help pay his basic monthly bills. He thought he was being helpful and bettering his situation but now his misguided "investment" in PMI has really set him/ me back.

Any help is appreciated.

A friend of Todd's

idkjf

My grandmother and I attended one of their seminars. I was 27 at the time. We purchased a package for what I believe now was $4, 500.00. I remember the guy looking around and quietly telling us what an awesome deal he just gave us... I told my grandma that this is it... not to spend another dime investing in our business without discussing it with me. This never happened. I was attempting to protect my grandmother from the vultures that they are...she was 86 at the time and has since passed on. I believe between the websites, the tax club, PMI, the advertising and corporate tax pro she "invested" over $50, 000.00 into a scam. *sigh* I am now 31 and beyond aggravated that these people took advantage of my grandma and so many others. Do not call the people that fell for it "idiots." That is simply not fair. There are those, like my grandmother that believed in the good of the world and to have faith in people...and there are those like me, that know better.

I wish I had seen this before sigining up with PMI nearly a year ago. I had the same thing, where someone called me after I ordered the DVD. They asked me questions about my income and what I did and then told me that there was a selection process of who they admitted to the program as they wanted only those who will be succesful. They asked if I'd be willing to share my story if I was succesful. I should have known it was a scam there and then, but then they direct you to legitimate websites and State Bureaus that accredit their company, so you believe them. I don't think the company itself is a scam, I think the product they sell and the way they sell it is a scam. They make it sound so easy, and that you won't need to invest much more money from your side, but the truth it that you do have to invest a substantial amount of money, it takes up a large amount of time and the support staff are not that helpful. I just think that if this Morrison guy really had a heart, he would stop ripping off people with this pipe dream. Why ask a person to fork out $5, 000+ and lock them into a 2year payment program, when you are'nt very transparent about what your product is or does prior to signing that person up. There should be a 1 month window whereby if the product is not for you, you can terminate your account, pay for the month and be done with it, but the contract mentality is a scam mentality. I am sorry to say, but Morrison's reputation will go down as a Scam Millionairre (maybe Hidden Millionaire stands for that in some sick demented way...)

Too bad I read this and other posts after I signed up. I too was scammed by PMI and I created a blog to reveal their unfair business practices, lies amd misrepresentations to customers.
Please visit the blog and share your story and feel free to comment and send it to anyone else to support or join in, so we can have a voice against these scammers. The more we post on all the sites and blogs, the more we will help other potential customers and maybe PMI will hear our voices as well. I am also considering filing a complaint with Utah's Attorney General and it would be helpful if several of us joined in the complaint.
You can find the blog here: http://scammedbypmi.blogspot.com/
Thanks!

I have been contacted by a woman who said that I am a chosen one for a position to be trained for a better life style. I was ask about my needs, and position in life' and if I need a change. I answered all the questions but I dont have money to give 400.Dlrs . I was ask to borrow it from someone, something I never practice in my whole lifetime. I was called again by this woman who is very persuasive, and give me the website> www, pmieducation.com to read --about us' I did and it looks soooooo good and convincing .I continue to read all, then I read the comments very carefully. I am a Mormon and I have other Mormons in Utah as friends, and was about to e-mail them about this business, and I stumble on this article. I want to clear one thing, that I dont believe that these Mormons belong with us'.Our Prophet is Thomas S Monson, and we are not into scamming anyone, but there is another sets of people who called themselves Mormons, and are something else.
I am about to investigate this evil if this is it. Big time' No one is going to ripp me off, and get away with it.In the name of Jesus Christ'.

I am having major problems with PMIeducation.When I called customer service for my refund within 24 hrs. of signing up ($6, 520) I have been getting nothing but the run-around. Suddenly Knowone wants to help. When I got through to customer service, She ( Bridgette ) said that it was noted in my file That Erik Rush, solutions manager, had phoned and talked to mymother. she wasn't even here. I checked mycaller I.D.---BIG SURPRISE--- Know phone calls came in from PMI. This is the biggest scam! It seems that Dean makes the big bucks by scamming trusting individuals, not so-much in real estate! KEEP AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE they will take you for every dollar you have AND MORE!

I was scammed by PMI Education also. I was contacted by PMI in September 2009 about starting an Online Business - Work at Home. They made everything sound so real. They even asked me if I would be willing to have a success story published. Well they are more than welcome to publish my debt of $3000.00 that they managed to get out of me. It will be 2 years this September and I have not made enough to pay of this loan.

These people really have a way of making you believe that you can make a lot of money with little or no knowledge of Online Business and building a website. I didn't even know what the words "META TAGS" were! I have found out the hard way.
At first these people were right there for you and soon there help began to diminish. If you tried to contact them you were put on hold forever or you were directed to a voice mail. I would leave messages but no one returned my calls and the online chat was constantly down.

How I let myself get cohersed in to this, I don't know? I guess I really wanted to make a difference in my life. I put 1000's of hours in to my online business and finally this January I shut it down.

I know now that I could have accomplished the same thing without PMI and saved myself a lot of money.

Sorry about your experiences and can more than sympathize based on a couple of previous personal experiences. This morning my wife and I were on a supposedly 15-minute phone call–which went on for over an hour–ostensibly to determine if we “qualified” to become “exalted” chosen members of their internet sales program. Phrases like that send chills up my spine–after all, this is nothing more than a cheesy sales gig–we pay, they supposedly deliver. The other spinal chill was that we had to decide today, Thursday. Yet after our call didn’t go as old Jake planned, suddenly Friday was okay. And by the comments herein, next week will probably be all right, too.

As Jake’s grilling about personal finances progressed, it became obvious they were less interested in our finances and more interested in how much money they could wring out of us. Salesperson Jake’s reaction became one of increasing anger as we deflected his questions. Finally, after our continued refusing to talk about credit limits, stock portfolios, etc. he told us: “Let me hang up so you can get copies of your credit and stock portfolio statements. Then I’ll call you back when you have accurate information.” He really got pissed when my wife responded that not only did we have no intention of getting any credit statements but the financial grilling was at an end.

Tomorrow I have my interview with some higher echelon person to ensure I’m worthy and thus able to bestow upon me the privilege of paying them thousands of dollars. Based on what I read here, I’m more than worthy. I’m loaded for bear.

We have had the same experiences with PMI Education, a late night phone call asking all the same questions as everyone else has received. We gave them the information they wanted thinking because Scott McGilvray was involved this it must be on the up and up. We felt very uncomfortable during the call and the next morning found this site. That morning I sent a fax to PMI Education and said I wanted to withdraw from the program. I asked for the money to be refunded and said there was no need for a Welcome Call. The Welcome Call came and several subsequent e-mails arrived. I asked that the charges to the credit card be reversed. I was told I would have to talk with the Dispute Resolution group. I was told that group did not work on Friday and they would call on Monday. On Friday evening we called the two credit card companies. Only one card had been charged for a little over $600. The large charge did not get to the second company. We changed the numbers on both cards that night. One credit card company said they have seen these scams before and said they would go after the company on our behalf once the charge hits the statement.

The call from the Dispute Resolution group came in the afternoon of Monday and I was grilled about why we had changed our minds. I was also asked where I had done research about the company. I was told that the internet is like the writing on a bathroom wall. No commitment was made to refund my money. A final call came from one of the acount reps who said he had sent and e-mail with things that may help me. I told him we were out of the program. That is the last I have heard from them.

I THINK ALL OF YOU NEED TO CONTACT YOUR ATORNEY GENERAL IN YOUR STATE SO THEY CAN INVESTGATE PMI/ THE TAX CLUB OR CALL YOUR LOCAL NEWS STATION. iT'S SOUND LIKE THE BOILER ROOM MOVIE SCAM. A BUNCH OF COLLEGE BOYS WITH COLLEGE DEGREES HAVE COME UP WITH THE PERFECT SCAM. I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU ALL RENT THE MOVIE BOILER ROOM. IT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO LET YOU WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH. MAY THE BLESSING OF GOD BE WITH ALL DURING THIS ORDEAL

If you have not received a refund yet and would like FIAD Services to force a full refund through our Dispute Resolution Services, please contact us at [protected] to discuss your case. We have NO UPFRONT FEE’S and work on a contingency basis. We work on a No Win, No Fee basis. We only need you to answer a few questions to confirm we can help.

We have done a background report on Professional Marketing International and other known accomplices (see below link) PLEASE LET US KNOW IF WE NEED TO ADD OR UPDATE ANYTHING! Please note report consists of previous client feedback that had previously done business with Professional Marketing International.

BACKGROUND REPORT - Professional Marketing International - http://www.fiadservices.com/company-list/reported-large-scale-scam-list/professional-marketing-international-scams/

Reported accomplices so far for Professional Marketing International;
Professional Marketing International
PMI
P M I
PMI Coaching
PMI Education
Wasatch Summit LLC
myEBiz
My E Biz
National Marketing Resources
Home Buyer’s Club
Operation Dropship
Interactive Training System
Click Sell Go
AFI Auction Max
SKW Central
Sean Keegan Walker’s Tax Liens & Deeds
Electronic Marketing Services Inc
EMS Coaching
EMS
EMServe LLC
PMI Education Center
Insidersedge
The Insiders Edge
Think a Little Different
uSight Home Inc
Home Inc
Home Office Marketing Enterprises
Stores on Line
Storesonline Inc
Imergent Inc.
H.O.M.E. Inc
H O M E Inc.
HOME Inc.
Tafiti Consulting

http://www.fiadservices.com/company-list/reported-large-scale-scam-list/professional-marketing-international-scams/

The company that I work for is FIAD Services (please visit our website, http://www.fiadservices.com/our-team/our-services/dispute-resolution-services/ )

Luke Daniels
Dispute Specialist

FIAD Services
43 S. Pompano Parkway, Suite 203
Pompano Beach, FL 33069

Tel: [protected] Ext. 222
Fax: [protected]
Email: ldaniels@fiadservices.com
Website: www.fiadservices.com

todays ...date... july 13, 2013...Jack / Julie San diego, California
Heres my complaint ...My name is julie...my other significant other is jack.. Everything is true.. i been reading and researching on the " Truth " on (((((( PMI Education )))))) I knew they were a bunch of sell outs.. My sweet dear other significant jack got scammed in by paying out $ 15, 000... We attended the " Buying Summit " in Las Vegas, Nevada..
They sold Jack a bunch of stuff..He bought a trust deed on a home in pennslyvania and Home rental property.. he also paid into " Veil Corporation" $ 6, 000... " SafeGuard" Tax coverage...$ 2, 500 for 2 years...he use his IRA/401K for his property $30, 000..I had a strong feeling " PMI " was a big scam...I starting realizing in the beginning, but continue in hopes to we were doing right ..I just currently started looking up researching to see if there has been complains..I think we should get togather in Class Action Law suit..Sad thing my sweetheart Jack still believe these Rip Off Con Artist scammmers are the deal of a big dream.. But, my gut feeling was telling me right all along...we did get a mentor coach name Sherry carlson..Dave was the sales rep talk Jack into paying for $15, 000 for program and it includes going to the "the Buying Summit Seminar" in las vegas..sherry our coach called every week for 30-40 minutes a session phone call..she did talk about us building a "buyers list"..talk about placing adds on websites advertising getting in "cash Buyers".
PMI never made a first deal with us or anything..we had the PMI website "education center" acess..I feel really disappointed and upset that my boyfriend Jack scammed..He is one the most heart giving wonderful man..He means the world to me..I sure like for him to get all his money back..sincerly, Julie..in San diego...please call Us everyone who complain and leave us your a message and phone3 ..we should all put a class action lawsuit in the state of Utah..if all get togather we can do this..i truely believe so.. [protected]...call us leave a message # tell us your story and i will contact you

I lost over $ 10, 500 in 2010 answering an ad from Dean Graziosi about real estate investing and was contacted by PMI who said they were working for Dean Graziosi. At that time I could find no complaints on PMI or Graziosi, and their BBB rating was B+ . I saw recently where it was F because of numerous complaints. Their "system" tells you to do things that my legal council advises me will not stand up in court. I have filed complaints with the BBB and My states consumer protection - but no results. Perhaps a group of us can petition the state of Utah as that seems to where they are based, and get something done to stop this. I was recently contacted by PMI this year to come to one of their seminars - I guess they forgot they already "GOT" me

They are still scamming with Option Monster Education. Coaches have no documented training.

I am yet another victim of the PMI Direct . After I purchased StoresOnline program, both The Tax Club and PMI Education contacted me with their offers (unsolicited). I took a day or two to think things over, and when they contaced me again I decided to sign up. Both turned out to be scammers, quite simply. The Tax Club had already been taken to court by Federal Trade Commission. I was refunded just over 50% of the money I paid.
PMI sales person outlined the coaching program very convicingly stating the fee I'd pay would cover 10 one on one coaching sessions, ongoing support as well as professionally designed functional website. As I had only vague knowledge of internet, I felt coaching will get me up and going a lot faster than trying to figure things out myself. I couldn't be more wrong. Oui of 10 promissed sessions only 2 happened, 1 anf 1/2 really because during the second session I learned that I will be getting a different coach who never happened. Instead I was given a lot of "homework" and videos to watch. No coaching. The quality of "professionally" created website was unacceptable. In August 2010 emailed PMI to remedy the problem of non existent coaching and the website of unacceptable quality. I received no reply. Consequently I sent another email, this time asking for a refund on the grounds that the program I paid for had not been ddelivered. After that I received a number of phone calls with messages left on my answering machine. The person who called me said he was calling on behalf of StoresOnline (?!). Didn't get a refund. They offered to remedy with another round of coaching sessions. The same thing happened: I had one session and given an assignement to do. The date was set for the second session. My coach did show up for the second session but only to tell me that he would be leaving PMI and that a replacement coach had already been organized, I was provided with the new coach's name and email address. As I never heard from the replacement coach I did sent an email to the address I was given. Not surprisingly I never heard from PMI again. Tried to get a refund with the help of Better Business Bureau. Alas with no success.