Infusion Software review: Refused refund 10

We take Mr. John Krowiak's complaint seriously and we reviewed his claims and attempted to reach further resolution; to which Kroiak and our team are in disagreement with the resolution. He purchased Infusionsoft on Tuesday, March 31, 2009. At the point of purchase, Mr. Krowiak agreed to the terms and conditions of the sale as it's confirmed through the user-friendly shopping cart.

The submission by Mr. Krowiak contains numerous inaccuracies and as such, I’m taking a moment to address fear, uncertainty and doubt that he elevated. As an organization, we are very compassionate and understanding with customers, especially when they are equally as honest and upfront with us.

After business hours on Friday, April 3, 2009 Mr. Krowiak alleges that he called Infusionsoft requesting to discontinue services. On Monday, April 6, 2009, Mr. Krowiak spoke with an Infusionsoft Customer Care agent and with his sales representative. At that point, Mr. Krowiak agreed to continue his relationship with us and engage with his setup consultant. We have documented interactions for reference within support ticket #108308, dated April 6, 2009 at 04:16 PM EST. From April 6, 2009 through April 20, 2009, Infusionsoft attempted to contact Mr. Krowiak to assist him in setting up his Infusionsoft account via telephone and email. Mr. Krowiak was unresponsive after numerous attempts.

On April 20, 2009 Mr. Krowiak contacted Infusionsoft requesting to discontinue service and receive a full refund. (Also documents on Infusionsoft service ticket 108308.) Per the agreement we have on file, Mr. Krowiak agreed to when he purchased (See below), Mr. Krowiak is not eligible for a refund. We have clearly explained to him via e-mail.

Mr. Krowiak contacted Infusionsoft via email multiple times between April 20, 2009 and May 5, 2009 in further attempts to collect an invalid refund. We promptly informed him that he was ineligible for such a refund. Mr. Krowiak refused to accept this answer despite the terms of his agreement.

On May 5, 2009, Mr. Krowiak threatened to engage in slanderous and libelous activity against our company in an email. Per his email, he threatened to slander Infusionsoft via the internet and through Infusionsoft partners. He stated he would interrupt an Infusionsoft sales presentation at a future non-Infusionsoft sponsored event. Additionally, Mr. Krowiak stated he intended to dispute the otherwise valid charges through his credit card company and concluded that he consulted with an attorney to determine the best way to pursue legal counsel against Infusionsoft.

While I’d like to conclude this as merely personal opinions, visitors may not be aware of the facts. I’d like to dispute massive inaccuracies of the statements shared by Mr. Krowiak claims on ROR:

--- Like most for-profit organizations, Infusionsoft does attempt to collect outstanding balances from customers who fail to keep their account in good standing. Additionally, Infusionsoft may send a such customers to a third-party collection agency to collect on such debt. As with unpaid debt, this may negatively affect an individual’s credit. This is a common business practice and is not in any way malicious, illegal or unethical.

--- Mr. Krowiak’s claim that Infusionsoft threatened to sue him over this manner is completely false. Instead, he threatened litigation against Infusionsoft. (Of which, we reviewed his threat with our counsel, and advised to him that all communications must be writing in order to assist him.)

--- Mr. Krowiak alleges in email, “The product was actually very very [sic] labor intensive. My sales team couldn't even login and it appeared that this was not a good product for us.” How would he know the product if was labor intensive and not a good product for him if he had never logged in? We have zero documented support interactions; if a legitimate login problem existed, we would be able to resolve it in a matter of seconds.

--- Mr. Krowiak falsely claimed, “I canceled within two days.” This is not true as was discussed above. He purchased and affirmed his agreement on March 31, 2009 and later vacating his contractual agreement on April 6, 2009. This is indicative of “buyer’s remorse, ” and not reflective of the quality of our software and services.

--- Mr. Krowiak stated in email, “My business is failing and I was looking for a way to get more customers, that's what I hoped Infusionsoft would do for me.” This is exactly what our services do for entrepreneurs and small business owners (such as Mr. Krowiak.) Instead of attempting to use the software and grow his business, Mr. Krowiak has made no effort to implement Infusionsoft into his business. Perhaps had he tried, we would not be at this point. Instead, Krowiak had abandoned his setup consultation for which he’s paid.

In the end, Infusionsoft is holding Mr. Krowiak to the agreement he entered into. Infusionsoft is an organization built upon entrepreneurship, authenticity, integrity, passion and compassion. We have been authentic with our communication with Mr. Krowiak and have been in frequent communication with him. We held up our end of this business agreement. A software service was provisioned, delivered and provided. Training was offered, although not accepted by Mr. Krowiak. To this day, Mr. Krowiak has refused the opportunity to use his Infusionsoft software and grow his business.

Infusionsoft is founded on compassion, but not when customers attempt to manipulate our organization. Had Mr. Krowiak been initially upfront with us from the inception of our relationship, we wouldn’t have been in this position. (In this instance, we recommend to lay the financial concerns out with our customer care team and continue with on-boarding so we can continue doing business successfully.)

Mr. Krowiak's lack of proper financial judgment should not be reason for him to slander, mislead and lie in an attempt to damage an organization. His frustration appears to be based on the premise of buyer’s remorse and illegitimate in his claim that Infusionsoft was trying to intimidate, threaten or otherwise not genuinely earn his money.

That said, we caution anyone considering doing business or entering into contracts with John Krowiak. As evident above, he has not been upstanding, honest or authentic in his professional interactions.

Having that said, in response to Mr. Krowiak’s warning to small businesses:
T o all small business, we invite you to check out Infusionsoft. Look at the dozens of companies who we’ve helped double their sales: http://www.infusionsoft.com/why/dys-club-members. We will help you grow. We will help you succeed through compassion, integrity, passion, authenticity and entrepreneurship.

This complaint has zero credibility or legitimacy to it; if it were accurate, wouldn’t there be thousands of complaints against our company? We incurred five. Four of which relate to billing matters (similar to this) and one was because we terminated another for Spam. I understand Mr. Kroiak’s matter is quite frustrating for him, but it’s no excuse to publish false, libelous statements against our company or individuals who offered valid attempts to help him.

For prospects who might be concerned about this report -- please bring it up to our sales representative and inquire exactly how much services are and what you receive for them. This makes a great to opportunity to ask questions and fully understand what Infusionsoft can do for your business.

If anyone has questions about this matter, they’re free to contact me to discuss our billing policies or the necessary commitment to take advantage of our products and services.

-Joseph Manna, Community Manager for Infusionsoft
joseph.manna|at|infusionsoft.com

Amen! Finally people are coming out about this company. I used them towards the end of 2007. They lured me in through big promises and a hard balling telemarketer.

Their product failed to perform as promised - they boasted about having a 91% deliverability rate, however, all of the emails I sent through infusionsoft went to SPAM or, even worse, didn't arrive in people's inbox. During this time, I was also using much cheaper ESPs: aweber, getresponse, and icontact. All of them with the exception of infusionsoft succeeded in getting my emails to people's inbox.

I requested them to fix the problem or give me a refund. They kept promising to fix the problem but to no avail. So I requested a refund. They told me for that I needed to contact a specific department. If I remember, the guy I talked with name was Jason.

I explained my problem to him. He asked if I contacted customer support. I told him, "Yeah... of course... they failed to fix my problem."

He corrected, "No no no... our customer support team didn't fail... it's the ISPs that have made it impossible to get email to people's inbox."

"But aweber gets my messages to people without any problems, " I said.

He retorted, "That's because aweber has been around longer and has better relationships with the ISPs. That's not our responsibility. You're on your with that one."

I came back with, "But in a marketing piece you guys claim to have a 91% deliverability rate."

"That was written a few weeks back. We are no longer committed to that number, " he said.

"Then can I have money back?" I requested.

"Yeah... see... that's the problem... we don't give refunds at infusionsoft."

After further investigation, I discovered that their company is owned by a pack of lawyers.

Luckily, I filed a complaint with my cc company and got back most of the money these slime balls tried swindle from me.

Josh

Josh is right when he says "Amen! Finally people are coming out about this company."

They really are an awful company and I think a lot of people are slowly realizing that they are nothing short of a scam. There system is terribly bug-ridden and over priced and their customer service is second to none, but not in a good way. It is the worst and most arrogant customer service you will have ever come across.

As for this Joseph Manna guy who posted his above. His whole job seems to be putting out fires on the Internet. So many people are P***ED off with these guys that I'm sure he is kept VERY busy.

Search Google for 'Infusionsoft Scam' and you'll realize just how bad this company is.

And don't believe the Internet marketing gurus for two reasons.

Firstly, they hype up Infusion to earn a kick back.

Secondly, they are not the poor sods who have to use the system. They have staff that have to endure the nightmare that is Infusionsoft.

These guys CAN put you out of business. Stay well clear.

@JSuerte -- I respect your personal views, but please don't make uninformed judgments about me. I do a lot more than respond for the company in moments where customers are disappointed. We have integrated a lot of the feedback that you found on the Web into our operations and have improved several impaired processes.

I'm sure that you might agree that not responding is more damaging than being transparent and upfront with our dealings with customers. That said, we learn lessons everyday as we strive to provide stellar service for all customers.

In light of some of concerns people have raised, there are several omissions in stories, such as our attempts to resolve, willingness to hold payments and wealth of resources customers can use so they can quickly (and successfully) use our software so they can grow their business. We take our reputation seriously and commit to ensuring that Infusionsoft delivers value to small business users. For instance, when people falsely claim that they received "nothing" ... that's flat out wrong.

As to the points people mention with bugs ... I wish I could show you the favorable trend of bugs that have been decreasing despite more users, more features and faster code deployments. Yes, we had a few bugs, but in essence they wouldn't stop your business (again, a gross exaggeration); but they could have added frustration during the experience. It's a calculated risk that we all take when we decide to implement new features, as we thoroughly test the software before it's live. That said, we are trending positively, minimizing our number of bugs day by day.

Deliverability is a very vague measurement. For many providers, they simply measure how many messages leave their servers and making connections to receiving ISPs. Others, it's based on ISP Spam Complaint (FBL) percentages, and for the few -- like us -- we measure by the number of messages arriving to the Inbox as verified through independent sender reputation provider, ReturnPath. We also monitor our users' email delivery performance and frequently monitor our IP pool to be rated as a "Good" reputation. As always, this is a moving target that depends on a number of factors, most of which are sender practices that dictate deliverability.

Are we perfect? No way, that's for sure. But are we improving, listening and adapting? Yes. We've incorporated user feedback (plus and delta) into our executive discussions, customer service changes, communications, sales (and obviously) our marketing practices to ensure prospects receive exactly what we deliver on. Google any company and you'll find dirt. That's the truth. But we respond and listen and care about people who wish to invest the time to use our software and services.

Despite all the horror stories (of which come from some sources of truth), the product and the service has gone through a lot of improvement and restructuring. I personally invite former customers to try our product again to discover the refreshing changes. I'll personally waive the initial time to give us a second chance for a fair amount of time to tire-kick it. I'm not the first to say that before mid 2008, our product was rather buggy, confusing and had it's issues. But like I state, it has improved.

Thanks again for your views, I respect them but I civilly disagree. We are an organization built on core values -- of which includes integrity, compassion and authenticity and that's what I do my best to deliver to the world out there. A balanced, fair and objectionable view of our team.

If anyone has questions, they're welcome to contact me to inquire for details. My email is listed above.

--Joseph

Mr. Manna - 1st - many states have a 3 day right to resend a contract - including buying your lame software. This guy isn't the only one who bought into your false claims - through Dan Kennedy I might add. I know another - very intelligent man who also wasted every dime he paid you too.

And what about all the complaints on your company made to the state Attorney Generals?

This product costs thousands upon thousands of dollars for a developer to integrate into a website and your instructions are 500 pages - so it looks like Infusion Soft is the one with the problem - not this poster.

I agree that this company is a scam, how else would you describe it? I entered into the contract with a 1 year money back guarantee as evidenced in an email sent from Infusionsoft to me. I tried to cancel at the end of the year because of NUMEROUS issues, too many to describe here. Of course they refuse to refund my money. It's taken 6 months of dealing with lies to finally understand that they had no intention of ever refunding the money. I actually had a sales manager tell me -in email - that he "prayed" about my issue with Infusionsoft...apparently "his" god told him to F&%$ me and not pay 1 dime towards the refund.

These guys are crooks and should leave their Mormon religion out of business dealings.

Buyer beware. I found it almost impossible to get timely callbacks (within 24 hours) from them on support issues. Once you are a customer you are treated very differently.

I have tried (unsuccessfully) to work with the Arizona BBB on a complaint against Infusionsoft. After the BBB decided that Infusionsoft should participate in BBB’s arbitration on my claim, Infusionsoft declined to… Apparently Infusionsoft had a special clause put into their BBB agreement that does not force them to use the BBB’s arbitration (free to consumers) instead they have their own idea of arbitration…We were given a 100% money back guarantee by the rep and Infusionsoft is not honoring it. To boot, after cancelling the service Infusionsoft continued to charge our company credit card. We had the charges reversed and then Infusionsoft had our account sent to an outside collection company.

I am perplexed at how they continue to get such a high rating from the BBB and why the BBB does not update their online records about complaints with Infusionsoft.

We were completely “taken” by this company and the software (bug-ridden) was incorrectly sold to us. The firm posture that Infusionsoft is taking is to not honor their guarantee.

My question to those out there with similar issues: did you try the BBB? If so, what happened? Did you escalate it from there? What agency should I go to if the BBB does not take action? Attorney General? FTC?

Please respond back or you can email me with suggestions at darren1964@live.com

I agree Buyer beware--- for Infusionsoft, I still don't get why it is different from other ezines, newsletters and email packages. Infusionsoft lures you in with promises, and then does not deliver. Eventhough when you complain they attempt to "fix" problems, the amount of time and money invested was not worth it to me. Overpriced for the benefits received. And infusionsoft --- never gives refunds, something they seem to be proud of. --- Yes it is buyers remorse after the fact, but the remorse is because I overpaid for what I received and had to invest too much of my valuable time in order to get the service up and running.

SCAM ! All the way. Scamming individuals and robbing them blind with promises of better sales revenue for their small businesses is how they stay in business. They charge hundreds of $$$ for any service you may need them for. They want you to need them - this is their hook. They forget to inform you that you will have to have some sort of graphics background to create branding for emails, newsletters, forms etc... I consider myself computer savvy and have experience building business websites, but THIS SOFTWARE - what a joke. It is so labor intense - its a wonder anyone running a small business has time to fully understand how to successfully utilize the software. During a recent convention in Phoenix we learned on our last day that Chrome did not support infusionsoft - HELLO ! I think someone should have mentioned this fact on the very first day. There were hundred's of us who had wanted to sign onto our accounts and practice creating a few campaigns while we were in the presence of numerous experts on Infusionsoft. We found out later in the afternoon on of our last day that Infusionsoft was supported by Firefox. Who knew ? Infusionsoft that;s who! They didn't mention this because they want you to call in for support so that they can charge you and arm and a leg for any sort of consultation. OH ! and Your emails ! Spam.