American Income Life Insurance review: this co. should be investigated 17

I fell for the scam to. I did it for over a year. Within that year I got divorced, Lost a lot of friends and got fired for "Termination without reason" that's what my separation papers said. It is a scam. I lied everyday to friends, Clients and whoever I thought i could recruit. My advise to everyone. DO NOT FALL FOR IT!

I received a call tonight from someone who was responding to my submission of my resume. An interview was scheduled. I decided to do some research on the company. I am so glad I did. I responded to the following ad and was not sure there was a connection to American Income Life, but then I found the second Craigslist.com ad and was convinced they follow the same practices as mentioned in the other complaints. Thanks Complaint Board for saving me the time! If you see the The Jatoft Foti Agency and AIL beware. P.S. I also noted another 'agency' promoting American Life using very similar wording in the following ads.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Time Union / Customer Service Position
Date: 2010-01-20, 12:07PM

The Jatoft Foti Agency is looking to hire FULL TIME sales associates/agents for its office in San Jose IMMEDIATELY. Serving the Greater San Francisco Bay Area including parts of Southern California, the Jatoft Foti Agency has been serving union members across the country for over 90+ years. Sales associates would be cooperating with union members in and around the Bay Area, enrolling union members who request our services for both new insurance polices and claims. LEADS ARE PROVIDED VIA 400+ UNIONS. Sales associates do not ever have to cold call. Repeat: NO COLD CALLING. We are seeking hard-working, teachable candidates who are interested in a full time career with our company.The necessary classes and tools are provided so experience in the insurance industry is not required nor necessary. Candidates with a BS or BA are preferred, but a degree is not a prerequisite. The annual wages depend on the candidate's past history, but the commission percentage does not. The actual commission percentage will not be posted, but will be discussed via one-on-one interview. The average annual monies earned, including the commission, for starting sales associate ranges from 60k-80k a year. It is not uncommon for first year associates to earn 100k+. For those who are more experienced in the insurance field, the monies earned range from 80k-120k+. Health and life insurance benefits are also included, given upon the 120th day of work. Please copy and paste your resume to the body of the email along with the best number to contact you. Those whose resumes qualify will be contacted to setup a one-on-one interview IMMEDIATELY for the San Jose branch needs sales associates as soon as possible. EXPECT TO BE CALLED IMMEDIATELY.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2010-01-19, 11:45AM PST
Reply to: jatoft_foti@yahoo.com [Errors when replying to ads?]

The Jatoft-Foti Agency of American Income has just opened a new office in Roseville, Ca. and is looking to fill 6 full-time positions. American Income is the only 100% Unionized Insurance Company. AIL is one of the top ten largest insurance companies in the world and is rated A+ superior by A.M. Best for financial strength. It was also ranked as the number 1 insurance company to work for by Yahoo Hotjobs. We are contracted by over 40, 000 unions, credit unions, and associations nationwide to provide supplemental insurance programs to their members. Jatoft-Foti currently has over 20, 000 members in the greater Sacramento area that need to be serviced continually. Our service agents are provided with 100+ members to contact bi-weekly to enroll into the supplemental programs that they have requested. There are four area of compensation; guaranteed advance, commissions, weekly bonuses, and renewals. The company also provides a group health insurance plan and a stock purchase plan. We are only looking for serious career minded individuals and will be holding interviews to fill the 6 positions. If you would like to be considered, send in your resume and contact information to jatoft_foti@yahoo.com. The upper mangement of the office is also seeking a personal assistant. This position will be based on hourly pay. This person must be well versed in microsoft word, excel, and have great organizational skills, as well as telephone experience. If interested in this position, please send your resume to jatoft_foti@yahoo.com.

you guys are poor broke losers.

I've researched the company. Their BBB rating is excellent; AM Best rates them A+. High credit rating with Dunn & Bradstreet.
Yahoo Hot Jobs named the company the #1 insurance company to work for in the world. Yahoo must be lying. They are a Fortune 500 company traded on NASDAQ under TMK. They are trusted by every Union in America. Come on guys, fact is, the world is full of losers. Great opportunities are not for everyone. Your wife was going to leave you regardless. I'm sure you were a loser before you walked through their doors.

To the above ###:

Are you really that much of a tool? By your "research" you must be. First off, TMK is traded on the NYSE, not the NASDAQ. Secondly, Torchmark is not and has never been a Fortune 500 company. Please show us in your extensive research where you found that. Their "high" credit rating with Dun and Broadstreet has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether or not they are a good company to work for. Neither does them being traded on the NYSE. I see more "F" ratings with the BBB and AM Best only rates an inusrance comapanies clamis paying ability. And they are the "#1 insurance company to work for in the world." Really? BAsed on what? What Yahoo says? Again I'm not going to belittle you any further as I feel sorry that you're ###ed and probably don't know any better.

So all the best, you suck, your company sucks and deep down you know that both of those statements are true.

Americn Income Life, agent Richard Carter came to our home using the VFW orgainization as his in, a veterans orgainization. Told the story of his sister deing in a car to gain your sympathy, posing as a vet (he wasn't), coming to our hous late at night 9:30 and not leaving tell 1:00 AM. Faking a test that was never administered and to top it off stole money that belonged to my grand daughters. Real goog compamy. President gives them bale out money so they can screww good American citiszen out of thier hard earned money. Can not say anything good about this individual or the company.

S half. I work for American Income and what this person did (if it really happened) was not because of the company it was the PERSON. There are bad seeds in every company that doesn't make the company bad that makes the decision to hire that person a bad one which unfortunately gives AIL a bad name. But doesn't consist of a "BAD COMPANY" My question to you th S Half is if you are the VFW(Veterans of foreign wars) or if you were referred by someone in your family (presumably) who was in the VFW how do you know he is not a VFW member? Anyone who has stepped on to Iraqi soil is now a member of the VFW (so if he was young, it's very possible he was VFW) and if he was older and he fought in WWII(probably not) or Granada or any of the other wars that weren't listed then he may still be a VFW member. You are making an assumption to the fact that he is not a VFW member. What test did he fake? A spit test? how do you know he faked a spit test? did he say "i am going to fake this spit test" did you see him fake the spit test? or are you assuming he faked the spit test because you don't recall a spit test? And lastly how does one "steal money" from your grand daughters(which leads me to believe you were the VFW member who referred these people, which leads me to believe you don't have any real knowledge of the spit test being faked or the money being stolen and that it's all presumptions). Lastly 9:30pm until 1:00am. At any point in time you(or the person who had them in their house until 1am) could have said it's late we can resume this tomorrow or it's late and im tired and come back some other time or anything else. Staying there till 1 am leads me to believe 2 things the people this person saw wanted these benefits and secondly that this person must have had an inordinate amount of questions or a lot of side talk or even a lot of medical problems which resulted in a long application process. And if it was the last part probably resulted in a DECLINE for Insurance on their part. If this truely happened i am sorry and i can say not everyone is like that and to blame something like that and say its a whole company is like blaming one soldier for killing children and saying everyone in the army are nothing but child murders or something to that extent... sounds a little unfair right? It sounds that way to me also.

In response to VacuumFolder

I can really only say this opportunity is not for everyone. You didn't have to alienate your friends or your family, one major question that comes to mind is that If you were there for only 3 months how and why in the world would you RECRUIT. I find it quiet strange someone who is new, knows nothing about the business and was in for a maximum of 3 months would try recruiting all his friends and lose friends because of that when you have no idea what you are doing yourself. And to go further into that you really asked all your friends? really? you either had very few friends, or more likely you actually felt like what you were doing was viable and working otherwise who would tell ALL their friends?

I wont go too much into this part but I will quote what you said "The leads start out great, actually made a little money at first. Then things will get tough if you do not try to sell to anyone." You got hired on to a sales position. You knew it was sales when you signed on when you went through the licensing process, when you got licensed, when you went through training and even the 3 months that you were working and released. So, YES it will get tough if you don't sell anyone. I think the fault is not the company, or even the leads ( you admitted the leads were great for a while) i really think it was you. You came in to a job that involved selling. Obviously, you weren't into selling so i think that at some point in the time where it went from hire to license to training to released you would have realized that this position is not for you and stepped away from it with respect and not complained about the fact that you just couldn't sell. I am not flaming you i am not making fun of you I am being very real with you. If you had a problem selling you should have never accepted the position because it takes two to tango.

Oh and just because someone doesn't go to their meetings it does not make it a scam. Just because someone needs to memorize a script and shoot a video does not make it a scam. Going to meetings is not only a personal choice but it may directly conflict with their work schedules meaning they CANT go to their meetings. Insurance is a highly regulated field and AIL uses a script so that new people (and people who have never done sales and for that matter, insurance) can have a baseline on what to say and what to do. Instead of a field like Computer Technician or Lawyer or Heart surgeon because well, in order for you to get any of those positions you need to be quiet proficient in them already and had immense schooling and college tuitions and etc. The script was designed to give an Average Joe who has never done Insurance or has never done sales, a fighting chance at actually being successful, and you my friend, were not. It is as simple as that you tried something and didnt succeed. It happens to the best of us. But I do wish you luck on your next career or job that you go into.

Michael Ellis

fail99 has to keep changing his screen name because the website keeps cutting him off due to his vile insults and foul language. Why won't he post under his name? Maybe he works for the competition the way he bounces from thread to thread attacking people who are offering FACTS obtained from real experience. Too bad they don't kick him off merely for his lies. Coward.

I worked for this company for three years and built a small agency. I moved on to other things but still receive several hundred dollars a month in renewals. It's not for everyone. You have to be a driven entrepreneur. If you want to sit back and collect a paycheck then go work in a factory.

MichaelAIL is a good salesman. Writes 20 paragraphs defending and promoting his company and fellow salesman and 1 sentence apologizing for his actions. My philosophy is it should be the other way around. Why can't you just say the dude lied his butt off to sell a policy? It happens. That's why I'm a loser and can't sell. And they are not trusted by every union in America.

It is not MY company. It is the company that I work for. I am proud to say I work for AIL. Not everyone is perfect, there will always be liars in every industry not just insurance. In McDonalds, K mart, Walmart, Costco. Every industry has bad people who do bad things. You are assuming that he lied, because you want him branded as such. I don't lie when I go in to a home, and I don't hire people to lie so that they can also sell policies.

I don't know that MichaelAIL is a good or bad salesman. He is just so disillusioned with AIL that he truly believes that what he is doing is noble. Sounds like he is young and as he gets older he will realize how much of a dumb [censor] he's been. I think that once he sees how an actual reputable insurance company works (you know, one that doesn't lie to get agents in the door or prospective ones in the interview) he will understand just how pathetic AIL really is. Otherwise he is getting paid by AIL to disseminate propaganda on all these posts. How else can you explain all of his posts (by my count 100 on this site alone)? Either that or he has way too much time on his hands despite being the "successful" agent he claims to be.

KenAdams - I do not think I am a good salesman, I don't really consider myself a salesperson, I really like talking to people. Who ever said insurance is 'noble'? I'm not going in to a castle to save the princess from a dragon. I'm not taking 6 bullets to the chest to save a baby elephant, I'm haven't even adopted 36 starving babies in Africa, to help feed them with just 12 dollars a month.

I have never claimed what I do is NOBLE. Is selling hamburgers and asking if they want fries with that NOBLE? Is building a home for a family and charging them (in some cases) 5 times what it cost to build, NOBLE? Is working for a company getting paid (you choose) dollars an hour, working 40 to 60 hours a week NOBLE? Is staying at home 'job searching' long enough to collect unemployment until it runs out NOBLE?... I think you get the point.

What I do is neither noble or vile. I am offering a product to someone who is accepting. As with any company in any industry in any year during any season. If someone want a cheeseburger and they weigh 380 pounds with a 5'3 stature should you as the seller (or middle man/woman if you're working in certain industries) tell them, no you cannot have this because i do not approve. If they feel they need it, my job is simply to provide it. I'm not selling drugs or sex.
I'm not doing anything to get anyone killed
I'm not doing anything to have one get addicted
I'm not doing anything to cause pain
I'm not doing anything to put them down or cause friction between me and them.

If you ask someone who has claimed on a life insurance policy ask them, if they could go back, would they buy more? 9.9 times out of 10 they'd say YES.

As far as a reputable insurance company, i want you to show me ONE company that is at least 2/3rd the size of AIL that does not have a complaint, that does not have someone who worked for them who is pissed, that does not have people who do not believe that the (whichever company) is 'reputable'. I guarantee, you won't find one.

AIL does not pay me in any way, shape or form to post on this website or any other websites (which this is the only one)

as far as posting so much and claiming to be a successful agent:
Success is not measured by how little time one has, Success is measured by happiness of the one.
Do I make a million dollars a year? not even close
Do I Make 500 thousand a year, No i don't, But i will.
Do I enjoy what i do? HELLLLLLLL YESSSSS
Will EVERYONE enjoy the same thing i do. No they won't

there are people on here who have thousands of posts, some well in to tens of thousands, are you saying that all of them are no-life-losers? Because that's pretty untrue. are you saying that just because I work for AIL that puts me in a different category of me obviously not being successful because I can log on to my computer open up (Google chrome) type in www.complaintsboard.com and click that nice link on the right that takes me right to responders. I don't know if i should be insulted by you implying that i'm too dumb to be able to navigate through such advanced technology, or i should be giving you the "oh, honey" response (If you don't know what that is watch How I met your Mother Season 6 episode 15).

Honestly, I don't mind if you're being a jerk to me you've come on to this website with one intent, to flame me and to make sure that AIL has a bad name. Not one time did you make any solid points as to WHY AIL is bad, or WHY you feel that way, it's was just "AIL SUCKS you are a [censored] for working for AIL, you must be an idiot because AIL is lame and once you realize that you'll still be an idiot, oh... and you probably dont work for AIL you probably get paid to say good things about AIL and if you're not you're probably not making money at AIL because, i said so."

If anyone wants REAL information about American Income

Call Me I am available 7 days a week, i do work for them as an MGA (I am not an agent in the company)
and have been for 3 years

my number is [protected]
or you can email me at michaelellisail@gmail.com

Heres the low down on AIL Canada.

The reality is that it is not a pyramid scheme, and does sell legitimate business.
The problem really stems from the series of “white lies” and spin.

When accepting this job I was told the pay structure worked like this.

500-700 $ a week based on production, if sales commission exceeded that range, you would get the commission, if sales commission was beneath that, you would receive the 500-700$

This is a half truth, During your training, you receive 3-4 ‘advances’ of 500$ per week. You will pay this back out of each commission check. As for the part about taking whichever is greater, salary/commission, it’s bologna.

After a few years, your reoccurring client’s premiums appear on your cheque as renewals. So after your first 2 or 3 years, You will receive that regardless of sales targets.

Otherwise, it’s pure commission baby.

The next payment comes from your “Gas allowance” which is supposed compensation for cell phone and gas bills. This is hogwash. You get whats called your Guaranteed bonus. This is approximately 200.00$ if you make 900 or more in sales. With that said. I haven’t seen this ‘bonus yet’ Regardless of production.

Next is your Bonus, your bonus is structured on your previous 3 weeks of production. If you land 3 weeks in a row of 1, 500.00$ in sales, you will receive 17.5% of your front end sales.

Your general commission is 50% of the annual premium per sale. But you only get 60 % on your front end, you get the other 40% on your back end. Why? Ill get to that later.

So here is your real pay structure.
Lets take a look at one of my better weeks. 3, 700.00$ in sales.

I get 30% off of that, which is 1, 100.00$
Then my bonus, of 17.5% which is 647.50
Then my production bonus (gas allowance) which is 200.00
All in all I should see 1947.00

What I got was 1, 100.00$ Not bad for a week of work right?
Wrong. This is a clear loss of 847.
When I went in to investigate my pay. There was no 200 $ bonus for production.
my pay cheque was actually 933 off of my commission.
and 167 for my bonus.

I lost 500 because of a policy that ‘fell off’… get used to that.
and 100 from my training advance.

Now heres the thing. All of this aside. This job DOES pay well, and is generally pretty fair… SO…Why did I quit?
Well lets get into that specifically.

First off, this is straight up sales, if you cant sell, if you cant push yourself, and if you aren’t going to work hard. Then don’t waste your time here.

The reality is, They sugar coat the job description to entice new recruits There is an incentive to recruit Here is where the pyramid scheme notion comes from.

Make no mistake there is no pyramid scheme, at least not traditionally. There is a real product to be sold and the majority of your earnings are from sales, not recruitment.

IF they told you that this job was straight up commission, then their recruitment numbers would suffer.

They will Hire anyone and everyone which is Real problem #1

1) Hiring anyone and everyone. This means that new recruits are coming in weekly, and im not joking the result is that the turf is effectively salted. In otherwords every lead you’re given has likely been seen, and many times at that. The biggest issue is if you come in to see a person who has been seen by 6 previous reps, you have absolutely no trust, No matter how honest you are.

Because the rep they see is different everytime, they’re distrustful no matter how good the service they receive is. Because every rep is usually brand new they know little about what they are doing and effectively screw the client.

2) You cannot clean up the mess. Let’s say that you’re like me and you notice an elderly person paying 80$ a month for 2, 000$ of coverage, and you notice that you have another program that can cover them for more for less monthly payments.

You want to do the moral thing and set them up with a plan that works.

YOU CANT. You will get fired for replacing policies, even if you choose not to accept the commission and if it is to the benefit of the customer. This is ### BUSINESS.

3) Sell your friends? No way. This too is grounds for immediate termination.
What happened over the years is this. New reps under high pressure to succeed sell some friends some policies, the friends agree knowing that if they cancel in the first 3 months they get a full refund. Reps do this to keep at target. Regardless of how it hurts their retention.

This is ### business, and frankly I cannot blame AIL for cracking down on it. But now you cannot sell friends or family ANY policy regardless if they plan to keep it until they die or not.

4) Very few products.
This is Life insurance. Point blank period. You can make a lot of money here, but the range of products is few. No Seg funds, No Universal life, Nothing with participating options.
We frankly have products weaker than the competition.

The only exception is our head start program which competes with programs like gerber commercial.

5 ) Shady Management.
Ok look, heres where I get huge issues. Your training manager will put business in your name, whether you like it or not. They will say its to make sure you meet bonus, and that you can go to convention. This is another half truth. The real reason is tax breaks, Your manager makes about 80-150 k a year, and in Canada that means a hefty tax liability.

So they put a huge chunk of their sales in your name to reduce the amount of taxes they pay, and up the amount you pay. BE AWARE OF THIS.

6) Uninvolved Training.
Managers will train you, but they ain’t gonna hold your hand. If you look around, ask your coworkers, and those with more experience, YOU WILL LEARN, but your manager isn’t gonna serve you it on a silver plate.

LOW –DOWN-

My feelings are mixed. The pay was better than any job I had worked previously, but felt that there were too many issues with the limited turf, and lack of quality product to compete with Sunlife and the hundreds of other companies.

Being objective however. Do not be deceived.

1) This is commission, 100 % do not let anyone tell you otherwise. There is a 500$ incentive to recruit people too, so if your buddy tells you to do it, Well … go see an orientation, who knows it might be right for you. But it is 100% commission.

2) Lack of products that can compete with other companies: So AIL offers some of the highest rates out of a given company. We, or I should say they do approve more people than other companies, which is both good and bad. The biggest issue is the lack of participating options, which offer dividends, and lower rates. Non existing investment products, no real medical coverage and frankly, its tough to compete.

3) The guaranteed leads are 25 per week to individuals who make 2000$ in sales per week. This is a reasonable target. But beware that these leads will be mostly people ages 50-75, and aren’t usually quality.

4) Bad business is taken off of your front end pay. So lets say you write a 1500$ policy one week, but a month later he decides to cancel. Well your commission, which is about 500$ will be ducted from your next pay. This is normal business practice for the insurance sales industry.

5) No Sales, No pay. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. I personally don’t mind commission because I am good at sales, but if you want salary, look elsewhere.

6) Salted Territory – Company hires wildly and often clients you see will have seen 5 or more other reps, before you. 9 times out of 10, they’ve quit, retired or been fired. Great Rapport already!

7) Sneaky tactics are encouraged – So we often get our foot in the door by offering some small free benefits to a prospect, usually insignificant crap, like a 4000$ accidental death policy, once our foot is in the door, we sell our product. This is fine, and not uncommon. But I feel like perhaps if our product didn’t suck, we wouldn’t have to do that… Am I crazy?

I left mainly because I found work elsewhere which is business to business sales. Selling products I can believe in.

Let it be said that you can make real money at AIL. If you aren’t afraid of pressure, accepting responsibility, some cold calling here and there, Lying and being lied too.

So long as you know full well that this is commission, and accept the possibility of failing. Id say it’s worth a shot.

Addressing the pyramid scheme aspect. AIL is close to pyramid scheme-esque’
if you recruit new people you make 5% of their sales. Just like in a pyramid scheme. It’s not quite a pyramid scheme however.

While it is very similar, the main difference is that you CAN earn a good living just selling the product ie the insurance, where as things such as Vemma, there is next to no way in hell you will make money off of the product, You are then required to recruit others build your “pipeline” and make money off of their investment into the ‘program’, but you do not make money off of sales, you simply make money by getting people to buy into the program, in a pyramid scheme, you will focus the majority of your time recruiting and not necessarily selling.

I hope this addresses all of the complaints and answers the concerns.
Anyone looking for a commissioned sales experience. Well Here is a good stepping off point.
If you’re good at it, you may actually get to retire after 5 or 6 years selling.

Just keep what I said in mind, and remain vigilant. If you feel uncomfortable selling the product, ask your manager for support. If after a few weeks or months you still do not feel comfortable. Well rest assured, it’s not because you’re a ### salesman. It’s because this is not the product you should be selling.

Take care, and good luck job hunting.

Also, Michael is an MGA, He gets paid per recruitment as well as off of the sales people under him.

see it goes MGA
GA GA GA GA
SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA
PP PP PP PP PP PP PP PP PP PP PP

Michael isnt a bad person, or a loser he makes more than most of us in fact. The reality is though he has personal gain by defending AIL. If I were him Id just ignore the people Flaming AIL altogether.

Above I wrote a pretty level headed analysis of company and keep in mind it varies from agency to agency.

Some interesting disconnects here about AIL-FOTI. As I just went to the 2nd "interview" today, and remember quite well what was said, some of the stuff people are saying in favor of AIL-FOTI can't be true. One person says that he worked there only 3 years and got a great deal out of the experience, and in fact is still getting renewal checks each month. HOWEVER, they said this morning that you only get checks after leaving if you stay for the 10-year vesting period, with vesting of 10% each year. Although the above commentator, Dizimz, is in Canada, and there are slight differences about the details, overall he lays out the situation in a clear fashion, and should be taken seriously.
This morning the "speaker" made it clear that there is no base pay. He detailed the way in which money was made, but it was so simplified that I actually feel something is missing.
Some of my misgivings come from:
1 - Even at the first interview I felt that if I were breathing, walking, talking, didn't have any obvious disabilities, I could get hired.
2 - At the first interview (where I learned little about the company) I felt that it was a pyramid scheme because he told me that I could move into management after 90 days, and be like him in a year, recruiting.
3 - At the first meeting everyone was very solicitous and customer-service oriented - a good sign in my opinion for a service organization. (selling a service of insurance.) But, the follow-up was odd: the recruiter's card had no email on it for a thank you follow-up letter, I received a confirmation of my second appointment, but then got a call saying to come earlier (20 minutes), then got an additional email reminder for the original time. It made me feel that there is no communication in the office.
4 - At today's orientation I finished the "talk", the paper-work, and the room of about 12 - 15 people were told that if their original interviewer was X, Y, or Z (named a number of people) to stay to speak with them, otherwise to turn in the paper work and leave, and would be contacted later. I handed my paper work to the receptionist, telling her that this was my instruction. She said ok, thanks, and they would get back to me. Before I even got home (27.7 miles, at most a 35 minute ride) I had a call from the recruiter and from another woman, both surprised I had left. I explained this to the recruiter/interviewer, who apologized for the confusion and asked if I could come back tomorrow! I said sure (was still not sure what I wanted to do) and scheduled.
Then sat down to do more research. My impression at this point is that the "talk" is partly to get people to say to themselves "I am a hard worker, not one of the average schmucks this guy was talking about, so I can do this and make a ton." The person speaking kept saying how they didn't really want those average people who didn't want to work. But never did he say that the expectation to make those numbers to bring you above average you would be looking at weekends or long nights. I even explained at my first interview that being a female, 4'11", 100 pounds, I didn't feel safe going into a strange home at night. I put it into the paperwork again today.
Bottom line, I don't want to risk life or limb to be able to go to court and sue them, saying I TOLD THEM that I didn't feel it to be safe. My guess is they wouldn't pay out for that policy!