KE-LI'S GOLDEN ACRES' RETRIEVERS review: Buyer Beware!!!!! 63

Casee (or Costner, who is deceased) is no different than any other dog in my kennel or any dog in anyone else’s kennel. This statement appears on my “Philosophy” page on my web site: “Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to minimize and perhaps someday eliminate the most persistent of serious inherited diseases. Therefore, it is our practice to do what we can to reduce genetic diseases in Goldens. Our Goldens hips and elbows are cleared through the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and their eyes have passed a CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation) exam as well as the heart clearance - Subvalvular Aortic Stenosis (SAS)”.
The condition to which this individual has complained about is “medial patella luxations” which is not a concern in large breed dogs; therefore the GRCA (Golden Retriever Club of America) does not recommend or require any tests be done on Golden Retrievers. Since Golden Retrievers’ bones do not fully develop until the age of 2 years old, we wait until that time to do our testing when their hips can be certified. Casee’s hips are rated “GOOD” through the Orthopedic Foundation of Animals. Her elbows are rated “NORMAL” and her heart and eyes are rated “NORMAL”. Costner had the very same clearances with the same ratings. ALL of my Golden Retrievers, of breeding age (2 years or older) have had all of these clearances done and all have passed them. This is ALL that we as responsible breeders can do to “reduce genetic diseases” in our large breed dogs. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know where this gene or defect comes from or what parent or lineage it comes from. As you can see on www.k9data.com all of Casee and Costner’s ancestors were also cleared of these diseases as well. Therefore, neither can be blamed for this "single" incident. There have been no other reports of elbow dysplasia or “medial patella luxations” in these bloodlines.

Another point to this complaint is this; I DO have a hereditary contract for all my puppies and I DO stand behind them. According to my contract: "Reasonable precautions have been taken to prevent this puppy from acquiring hereditary faults. KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS warrants and guarantees that the puppy purchased is in good health, of sound mind and free of physical defects as apparent to the naked eye. In addition, KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES RETRIEVERS warrants and guarantees that the puppy purchased will pass all the required clearances; defined as hips and elbow certification (either PennHIP above 50% or Preliminary OFA with a grade of “fair” or better), heart certification (OFA) and eye certification (CERF).

For claims with regards to hip, heart, elbow, or eye certification, a copy of the findings from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program (PennHIP) or Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) MUST be submitted to KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS. Puppy must be returned. Shipping of the original and replacement puppy is at the expense of the Buyer. If Buyer opts to keep the puppy, then Seller agrees to give Buyer a discount of $250 toward a replacement puppy from the next available litter. Replacement may take up to one year and will be of equal or better breeding."

This contract was agreed on by BOTH parties! I offered this to this individual and she did NOT accept its conditons. In fact, I offered over and beyond my contract and told her that she could keep her Golden and I would "GIVE" her another puppy later on this year. This did not satisfy her complaint, therefore, the offer was retracted.

WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?

WOOF WOOF!

WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?

Jesus Christ yet ANOTHER dumb ### who bought a pet from a "reputable" breeder and is ### about the result...

This breeder sure sounds like she is reputable to me. I have checked her web sight and it states exactly what she has written in her response. It also sounds like she has tried to do the write thing and go over and above the stipulations of her signed contract. As far as continuing to breed the female I see no evidence other than this one isolated incident. From my research it would indicate that the chances of this happening again would be same odds as the dog contracting cancer it is simply a sad fluke which can happen with all of Gods living creations no matter how perfectly healthy both parents are.

Breeder's comment: “Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to minimize and perhaps someday eliminate the most persistent of serious inherited diseases. Therefore, it is our practice to do what we can to reduce genetic diseases in Goldens." WOW If you want to reduce inherited genetic diseases in your goldens, then stop breeding the one in your kennel that has produced a serious genetic disease! Are you nuts? Are you in this for the money or the good of the breed?

Please review again the breeder's comment above. Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to MINIMIZE and PERHAPS SOMEDAY ELIMINATE the most persistent of SERIOUS INHERITED DISEASES. Therefore, it is our practice to DO WHAT WE CAN TO REDUCE genetic diseases in Goldens. Any of my dogs or even the best of show dogs has a chance of producing genetic diseases. That is EXACTLY why we do all the expensive testing! But that is NOT a guarantee with anything! The odds of this female producing another puppy like this is astronomical and is the same chance as any other dog in my kennel or anyone else's. The hundreds of puppies that Costner has sired and the other puppies produced in my kennel are proof of the rarity of this problem ever happening again. I have been breeding for 33 years and I believe that gives me much more knowledge on genetics than most. To eliminate the possibilities of this happening again would be for all of us responsible breeders to stop breeding completely. I have agreed to abide by the hereditary contract that was MUTUALLY agreed upon AND I offered above and beyond that. This did not satify the buyer. That is all that I can do.

It sounds like to me the buyer would rather have the money refunded than another puppy so that they can address the issues of the dog adopted from your kennel. If you feel this is such a rarity and would never happen again, then you should just give them the money that they paid for the puppy. Anyone can see that would be the best thing to do for the good of the animal that came from your kennel. That would be truly standing by your "product" and you would be much more admired for that in the long run. Most people would not return a puppy that they have loved for a year and that has become a part of their family. And from my experience, these orthopedic surgeries can be VERY expensive, so giving them another puppy is not going to help them "fix" the problem. And besides, you mention that you have had many puppies in your kennel sired by Costner but how many litters has Casee had that you are so confident that this is a rarity? What is your track record there?

MY CONTRACT STATES that "For claims with regards to hip, heart, elbow, or eye certification, a copy of the findings from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program (PennHIP) or Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) MUST be submitted to KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS. Puppy must be returned. Shipping of the original and replacement puppy is at the expense of the Buyer. If Buyer opts to keep the puppy, then Seller agrees to give Buyer a discount of $250 toward a replacement puppy from the next available litter. Replacement may take up to one year and will be of equal or better breeding." It doesn't state that I will REFUND the money AND they can keep the puppy! This is the contract MUTALLY agreed upon! If you have your roof replaced and there is a problem, they might replace the roof again but are NOT going to refund your money. If you buy a car and it is a lemon, they are NOT going to allow you to KEEP your car AND give you a refund! I have owned registerd cats, horses and I have a contract that I sign as well when I adopt my VERY EXPENSIVE puppies with breeding rights! It is ALWAYS either a return and replacement, NEVER a cash refund! I loose TWO years of loving that puppy and am out financially as well! Clearances I have to pay for whether they pass or fail, plus shipping fees and travel expenses and Veterinary costs and worming and heart preventative and expensive food for two years; JUST SO THAT I CAN OFFER OFFSPRING THAT ARE TRUE TO STANDARD AND PASS THEIR CLEARANCES! That is NOT how any business goes! I realize this is a living creature, but again, this is the SAME agreement I have when adopting a puppy! MY TRACK RECORD? WONDERFUL, that is why I have had such a good reputation all of these years! A contract is a contract! If I meant it to say something different then I would have revised it!

By the way! LOlcnbt is the husband of JoinLaGrange! Isn't that a bit of a "conflict of interest?! Especially when he comes off as an outside opinion!

I too am a reputable breeder of Golden Retrievers and have my Goldens health checked and registered with OFA and CERF before breeding. There are many reasons besides genetics that can play into a puppy having bad hips and elbows. If you allow your puppy to become too obese, feed him something other than large breed puppy or adult food (which can make your puppies joints grow too quickly) and jump or exercise your puppy too much, these can play into having a defective puppy as well. We breeders produce the best puppies that we can so you can have a healthy puppy. I have had many Goldens who didn't pass health clearances and had them neutered or spay and found forever homes for them so that you can have a healthy puppy and I know this breeder does this also. Puppies are the same as a human baby or any other species and can not be guaranteed perfect health but just to lower the chances of health problems. When you buy a puppy, you are taking on the responsiblity of taking care of that puppy just like you would a family member. There are insurance programs out now that will insure your puppy in case you have trouble like this. If this is a family member, like a puppy really is, than you would not expect someone else to pay your bills for you. This is what you agreed to when you bought your puppy is to take good care of him and part of taking good care of him is to be responsible for his financial needs. It sounds like you just want to pass the responsibility of puppy ownership to someone else to take care of it for you. As far as this breeder not breeding this Golden anymore is really none of your business. She has proven herself to be a good breeder and just because this happened to you does not make her a bad breeder and to have to get rid of her female or male because YOU had a bad experience. That would be like getting rid of yourself if one of your babies had a health problem. This stuff happens in life to all of us and the fact remains that you just have to take the responsibility of this puppy and do what you can in the best interest of the puppy and quit pointing fingers. If we breeders stopped producing Golden Retrievers because of a very few unhealthy puppies then there would not be any healthy puppies for anyone. We do what we can and since you signed the agreement when you purchased your puppy you need to take the responsiblity and just do what you need to do without trying to change what the agreement has to say. Cathy

You still didn't answer the question: What is your track record with Casee? How many years have you been breeding her that you are so confident this is an isolated incident?

It seems to me that you are a typical breeder in it for the money and don't give a damn about the problems and heartbreak that you cause families! Good luck with your breeding and I would strongly encourage people to stay away from you! What is the name of your kennel? Oh yeah...you didn't mention it! Good choice.

Hey, there is no money in breeding dogs IF you do it the right way like I and and some breeders do. I made $6, 000.00 for the whole year of 2010 after I deducted dogfood, Vet bills, kennel maintance, Obedient classes, wormings, shots, health clearances. I bet you make more money that this. I'm definitely not in it for the money and I don't need the money as my husband gets a very nice pension from the company he worked at and I'm a retired nurse. I do it for the breed as I love Goldens and want others to enjoy Goldens like I do. Let me ask you, what do you do NOT for money. I bet you work everyday not expecting to be paid for a good job well done. I have made many, many families very happy with my Goldens and they tell me they don't know how they would live without them. That is my goal. Not everyone thinks about money like you do. It's the people who think it's all about money that are the most greedy people in the world. I don't need or desire to give you the name of my kennel as that is not your business. I'm just here supporting breeders who care deeply about their dogs and without us, you would not have good healthy dogs as the people who do it for the money are the ones that produce puppies from parents that are not health clearanced. They do not want to take the time or the money to do it right. They are the ones to stay away from. Like I said, it's only the people who think we are in it for the money that are the most greedy people in the world as what you speak you become. IT was not that this breeder didn't offer this person something and it was a wonderful offer. IT was just that this person wanted to push this breeder into doing something that wasn't part of their agreement. I want to know what you do for a living and if you make any money for it. I am proud of what I do and that I can produce puppies that become part of families and families that care for them as much as I do. You sound like you are a very hateful person to attack someone like this. I'll be sure to pray for you.

It seems that this debate is OVER! I think Cathy said it very well! It certainly would be nice to make money at what I love to do as many people hate their jobs and make lots of money! What would you rather have? You both should be ashamed of yourselves for the language and tone you are using! Why don't you specify what you do for a living, I would like to challenge you on what you do even if I don't know anything about it! Sound familiar?! Casee has had 3 WONDERFUL litters of puppies! But it isn't about her track record it is about the track record of dogs that pass their clearances and the odds of them passing it onto their offspring! Studies can't be done ON an isolated incidence it takes many years of responsible breeding to "PERHAPS SOMEDAY ELIMINATE the most persistent of SERIOUS INHERITED DISEASES."! This statement can be found in the Golden Retriever magazine, Volume 4, 1998-99 edition. This edition has an entire section on Fighting Hereditary Disease by Marcia King. Many Doctor's have been quoted in this section. Dr. Goodman states "breeders should carefully assess the hips of a breeding prospect's entire family, not just those of the individual". "One of the reasons we still have a high incidence of hip dysplasia in the Golden Retriever is that the tried-and-true method of evaluating just the ONE ANIMAL doesn't tell you what its genes are." He goes on to say "In other words, incidence of hip dysplasian within the family is a far better indicator of what genes a dog may carry than simply an evaluation of only one dog." "Receiving a ranking instead of simply and evaluation is important. For starters, it provides a more accurate assessment of whether the dog will develop CHD. Additionally, because dogs with tighter hips are less likely to develop CHD or have CHD genes to pass on, breeders have better, more scientifically supported criterion on which to base their selection of breeding stock".! There is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more research as far as genetics go, so honestly, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about! You are just upset because this happened to YOU! Quit attacking people because of your misfortune! I, too, will pray for both you and your wife.

Zachary, you have missed a lot in the previous statements! I offered to GIVE these people a puppy and NOT have them return theirs...OVER AND BEYOND what my contract states! This was STILL not agreeable to them! So you tell me, is it or is it not about the money!

I think the last comments have gotten WAY off of the subject! I am only trying to get the word out about Casee a dog this breeder is breeding! My puppy is a product of Casee and he is from this breeder's 1st litter born on October 29th, 2009. My dog is now 16 months old, so there are NO dogs from Casee that are older than that! ALL the more reason to BE AWARE! My puppy has MAJOR ORTHOPEDIC ISSUES, so just consider yourself warned! She is going to keep breeding this dog, and If I can get the word out and help 1 person or family from suffering the hell my family has been through over the last year, it will be worth it! I too, will be praying. Praying for the surgeries and suffering my dog has to endure, praying that other families will not have to endure this due to this breeder's irresponsibility and praying that we do not have to put this animal down and devastate my daughters. This is a BAD situation all around and I hope it does not happen to anyone! All I can do is try to inform others. I have done all I can.

I have the misfortune of having taken over the TLC. Restaurant now
DA Carlo I have build a successful business Donald Beskine has obtained a judgement against me Fraudulentley On the 14th Of February 2011 my lawyears lodged a criminal complaint with the Court to have judgement set aside and asking For E.300.000 to be lodged with the court, It seems that he has issued a writ against me in November 2010 all mails for the MBC are delivered to Donald Beskine it was never given to me or I signed for anything. I collected a registered mail and law and behold he has obtained in my absence judgement for E.66.000 Checking the court papers we discovered Donald Beskine entered a forge document (contract) stating the rent to be treble then it actually is. Maibe this time he has slipped up.
It's frightening that a judge grants a judgement on a strength of an English contract ( not translated) in my absence and been aware that I was not served. I need for Fred or Robert to Contact me.

I'm sorry to hear this about your puppy and the heartache it is causing you but I also still believe that what you are asking Sue to do will not change the situation at all. She is offering you money in the sense of a puppy and you will not have to give your puppy up. You could always sell the puppy she gives you and then you will have the money for your puppy. People need to know that there are other reason why this can happen beside's genetics like I mentioned earlier. We don't know how you have been taking care of your puppy and if you have been feeding the wrong food, exercising him too much, giving him vitamins with calcium which can cause overgrowth of bone problems. It's just that you cannot demand that Sue doesn't use the parents of this puppy as this is the first case that she has had with this problem out of many litters this female and her male has produced. It is a very sad situation but $1000.00 is not going to help much. Besides like I said, she is offering you $1000.00 in the form of another puppy and you don't have to return the one you have. That is a fair offer in my opinion. I know that right now you have grief issues and part of the grief process is to blame others for a problem but hopefully soon you will move on and just do what's right for this problem instead of anger toward a breeder that does everything in her power to produce the best puppies she can with the science that is provided. Take care and God Bless.

Maybe if I post this information on a "smaller" comment it will be easier for the buyers to understand: "One of the reasons we still have a high incidence of hip dysplasia in the Golden Retriever is that the tried-and-true method of evaluating just the ONE ANIMAL doesn't tell you what its genes are." He goes on to say "In other words, incidence of hip dysplasian within the family is a far better indicator of what genes a dog may carry than simply an evaluation of only one dog." "Receiving a ranking instead of simply and evaluation is important. For starters, it provides a more accurate assessment of whether the dog will develop CHD. Additionally, because dogs with tighter hips are less likely to develop CHD or have CHD genes to pass on, breeders have better, more scientifically supported criterion on which to base their selection of breeding stock".! THIS IS PROFESSIONALS SPEAKING OF GENETICS! READ THIS! ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THAT YOU ARE WRONG IN ACCUSING ONE DOG OF YOUR PUPPY'S PROBLEMS? WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS FOR YOUR ACCUSATIONS?!

This breeder sounds terribly unsympathetic to me. This family simply wanted to get this sweet animal to join their family and have fallen in love with him. I cannot believe what they are going through now, and that this breeder will not consider reimbursing them for the cost of this dog, knowing what all is happening genetically and the surgeries facing this poor dog. It's sad to think that the other families may have to endure this same kind of treatment in the future. Greed is a wicked thing...so is having to much pride to admit that maybe you should do the right thing. Shame on you!

Even though Casee has "GOOD" hips and elbows that are "NORMAL" (by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) her rating (or ranking) alone is not enough to assess whether or not she has the gene to pass on hereditary diseases onto her offspring. Therefore, we as responsible breeders consider the dog's "family" or ancestors to decern whether or not this gene is found or "carried on" through the generations. In Casee's case, there isn't a dog that hasn't passed any hereditary clearances on either her sire or her dam's side for well over 10 generations (as far back as I researched). This proves that this ONE incident was "just a fluke". This is based on scientic evidence and experts through OFA. Those dogs with "tighter" joints (hips and elbows) are less likely to develop dysplasia OR HAVE THE GENE TO PASS ON! Casee was not only ranked at the lowest end of the scale but as "GOOD" which is the majority of rankings. An "EXCELLENT" ranking is only found in less than 2% of the population OF ALL DOGS in the USA! Two of my dogs in my kennel have this ranking. In all the years I have been breeding, I have had 2 EXCELLENT ratings, 3 FAIR ratings, and the rest have all been GOOD! That is a heck of a record! This is what is used to support the criterion on which to base our selection of breeding stock!

Some are so quick to judge what is there on the surface, but not to see this situation from a breeders standpoint. I am in compliance with my contract and offered over and above what I agreed to contractually. Greedy you say? At best after all the sleepless nights waiting for puppies to be born and then staying with them 24/7 for weeks to be sure everyone gets enough to eat and then after all that effort an inexperienced dam lays on a perfectly healthy puppy! Beyond our control as these are living, breathing creatures, we looe countless puppies for various reasons. We lose dogs early in life due to conditons beyond our control, we lose the elderly pet that we have loved for years and after breeding for over 33 years, that is MANY! We HOPEFULLY make a small profit each year for our work and it is physically back breaking, emotionally devestating and financially impossible! HOPEFULLY after all the debits of food, Veterinary bills, maintenance we make a mere $5000 a year! GREEDY? What do you make a year? Do you give 1/5 of your earnings to the poor and unfortunate as you are asking ME to do for these people? Maybe it is time to look at the FACTS in my previous comments and see this situation from the other side! It would be very easy for me to do the "emotional" thing here as I have been tempted to do for years! But in spite of what any of you think, I HAVE to be smart about the very little I make so that I can continue to do what I do or I would certainly go bankrupt. Then you could rely only on backyard breeders and puppy mills! Think about that for awhile!

Another point would be the sire that one breeds with the dam and it's "rating". My ONLY sire is rated "EXCELLENT" and his elbows, eyes and heart are rated "NORMAL". There is NO higher rating! This is the sire I breed with ALL my females now. He comes from champion bloodlines and his sire is in the SDHF (show dog hall of fame). These dogs are NOT cheap to acquire! This sire with all of my other Goldens MOSTLY rated "GOOD", is very hard to beat. Take a look at other breeders in the midwest or all around the country for that matter and tell me what you find! Do some research BEFORE stating your bias opinions.

To Maddie Moo, I think you are missing the point. This person who has the sick puppy wants MORE than the money. (which she was offered through another puppy) but is demanding that Sue stop breeding her Golden which is unreasonable since this Golden has very GOOD rating on her OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of Animals) and has NOT produced a bad puppy. She has done everything that an EXCELLENT dog breeder would do so this demand is ridiculous at the most.

Not really Zachary! I am basing my comments on FACTS you are not!

I just want to close in saying that I feel very badly for this family and the situation they are facing. We all have many trials in our lives and for whatever reason, some of us more than others. Perhaps it is so we can be more compassionate people. This is what I do for a living. I do it well and I am experienced and informed. I have studied pedigrees and am responsible enough to know that prevention is the best medicine. I have done all I can to be certain that my Goldens are healthy and happy are rear puppies of the same. I have made 100's of families very happy with my efforts. When doing anything for as long as I have, there are bound to be some bad events that happen. It's life. Life is not perfect as we live in a fallen world. I am content in saying that I feel that I have been fair and above reasonable with this family. If they continue to think they can control my kennel and my decisions because of thier bad experience they cannot. Just like a good doctor that is plighted with a lawsuit for all the years of good he/she does and is labored with a lawsuit because of one familes' bad misforture. One situation is not enough to say that any practice is bad, especially for all the years of dedicated service. I hope Dudley makes a quick recovery if and when you decide to move forward in your decision to put him through this surgery. Again, that is your decision whether I would do the same or not. Personally, I don't think I would. Unfortunately, large breed breeders do not test for the luxation in the patella and that is unfortunate but the odds are so rare that they deem this unnecessary. As far as the elbows, from the reports that I were given, it is a mild case. Hopefully the treatment you spoke of late last year will be affective in supplying some comfort to his elbows. I would hope that you have made your point and have let off some steam and can let this rest for all of our sakes. I will continue to breed to the best of my ability with the knowledge that I have acquired for these past 3 decades. Good luck and God bless.

Uh Sue C,
Your research is faulty if you didn't know that Aspenglo's Angel Fire was mildly dysplastic (she's Casee's great-grandmother - so only 3 gens back on her sire's side). Also, Maclightning Hearted Huntsman, Laurel's Lightearted Lady, Laurell's Lightfoot, and Trusti Trish (3 & 4 gens back on her dams side) have NO verifiable information listed on OFA.

Conner (Casee's sire) has sired two dogs with Hip Dysplasia - Goldenquest-Sandra-Dee-Gorham (Mild Unilateral Right) and Old Irons Beautiful Alexis (Mild). These are half-siblings to Casee out of two different ###.

You have at least 2 ### that you list on your site that you are saying are going to be bred on Prelim clearances. You state that Cydney's prelim hips came back Fair - you are aware that OFA's stand on this is "dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months)."? Your ### Chilli's latest CERF report states that she has entropion - an eye disorder that would get her excused from the show ring. Your stud dog's last verifiable CERF was done in 2007. Casee's last verifiable CERF was done in 2008. If your dog's eye exams are not submitted to CERF, your dogs are not CERF'd. They are ACVIM-cleared. CERFS/eye exams should be done every year, not once in a dogs' lifetime.

It took me all of 20 mins to find this information. The information about Angel Fire is common knowledge among those who actually research and compete with their Golden Retrievers.

Yes, you can say that this dogs' problems are a fluke but you are kidding yourself if you think that your lines are free from these issues.

I have to give you credit for DOING SOME RESEARCH! And having an argument worth listening to! I appreciate that, I REALLY DO!

I was familiar with Goldenquest Sandra Dee with a mild unilateral deficiency. However, I was not aware of Old Irons Beautiful Alexis having mild dysplasia. Hips or elbows? The owners are arguing elbow dysplasia in the bloodlines, I see nothing of this nature in Casee or Costner's bloodlines. And I am without a doubt if you look hard enough you will find something in either ones ancestory. It would be impossible to continue a "perfect" bloodline in any breed of dog. My Orthopedic Surgeon spoke with me in detail a year or so ago, that Goldens have been so poorly bred that instead of taking a chance and testing them for elbow or hip dysplasia they will go with a Penn Hip instead as buyers cannot translate a percentage like they can understand - Fair/Good/Excellent. However, you must also know that OFA's ratings are not 100% accurate either. You can go to many different sites and see that it is not a mathmatical rating nor as accurate of a rating as that of a Penn-Hip evaluation. A rating of 50% or higher is satisfactory with Penn-Hip. This method is not widely used and I have not rated my Goldens this way as I think it is even more confusing than OFA to buyers. What so many don't understand is that OFA is really all we have right now to evaluate and they aren't always reliable. Hundreds of dollars spent, but the best we can do is this for now. There is no means to rate anything that is 100% certain. And any breeder can have their dogs "retested" and many of those dogs have received a better rating the second time; mostly those who rate "FAIR" and move up in rating to a "GOOD". I have seen some borderline and some with mild dysplasia also be reevaluated and pass the next time. This is many times due to the individuals taking the X-rays as they may not be as experienced or not even have an Orthopedic Surgeon on staff at all at that clinic! I have seen Radiologist make a lot of errors in the years I have been breeding. That is why I require proof from OFA of any heart or dyplasia claims. That is also why I have my Orthopedic Surgeon do all of my X-rays.

Chili does or did have entropian when her eyes were tested at 5 months old. The Opthomologist told me that I should have not done any surgery to her eyes until after she was 2 years old and we see how her eyes change as this is a condition they can grow out of. They put a small stitch or "tack" the eye lid until they are 1-2 years old and they reevaluate. I do not plan on ever showing her. CERF knowing what was in her report did give her a passing grade, though CERF GR-42138/2009--6. They will NOT do that if they believe it is going to be a problem in breeding. I most certainly do plan to breed Cydney and Cello. Cydney just turned 2 years old last month. The preliminaries had to be done per the breeders that I purchased them from as they were only guaranteed on their hereditary clearances for 6 MONTHS! It does cost the exact same to redo them when they are 2 years of age, however, the prelims are a very conservative evalation and is approximately 95-99% accurate as when the finals are done PER G.G. KELLER D.V.M., M.S., DACVR Chief o Veterinary Services at OFA. I spoke to him, directly, many years ago regarding this matter. NEVER has any of my dogs been bred prior to their 2nd birthday and never just on prelims, however, this is very common for a breeder to do when they are familiar with the bloodlines. I have very close ties with the breeder that Cydney came from, CELLO DOESN'T EVEN TURN 2 YEARS OLD UNTIL JULY OF 2011!

Many breeders do not report their dogs' clearances on OFA, CERF and SAS on k9data web site. That does NOT mean they are not cleared or have not passed.

Yes, I still feel that I can say with all confidence that this is still a fluke, whether you think I am "kidding myself" or not. I don't know if you are a breeder or have great knowledge of Goldens or are just somewhat experienced in how to obtain this information. But it is so much more than black and white. Casee and Costner have excellent bloodlines with minor faults compared to many out there, so I have no regrets purchasing these Goldens or breeding them.

ALSO, ANOTHER POINT THAT WAS MADE BY CATHY, IS THAT Hip AND ELBOW dysplasia can be caused by injury, poor nutrition, obesity or abuse! I do NOT believe that the owners abused this puppy in any way, but they are "new" puppy owners, therefore, slippery surfaces last winter or injury also "could have" caused mild dysplasia in its elbows.

Again the issue that these individuals are most concerned with is the luxation in the patellas of this dog's KNEES, which is something we do not test for in large breed dogs. I have received the report from this couple regarding their dog's elbows, and it does state that the condition is "mild".

Everyone,
I have always bought my dogs from breeders. You ALWAYS run the risk of having a puppy that may eventually have problems...even if the parents are perfect. That is why breeders have contracts. The people who received this puppy clearly did not understand this and clearly did not understand their contract.
It sounds to me as if the breeder went above and beyond her responsibility and bounds of her contract in order to remedy the situation. I understand the people who bought the puppy love their dog extremely. However, the breeder did nothing wrong. The reason why Casee does not have any older litters is because you cannot breed a dog until the dog turns 2. If she just recently turned 2 then she wouldn't have an older litter now would she?
This is a rare thing that happened...it happens in life sometimes.
One "not so good puppy" that occurred in a sea of wonderfully bred puppies is one of those things you chalk up to coincedence. I'm sorry that others cannot see that.

I purchased a Golden puppy in 2007 from Sue. His father was Cosner and we have had no problems at all. Every vet check Hank is found to be very healthy and is full of energy. I thought Sue was very reputable and could not have been happier with the service she gave and the health and personality of Hank. He is a wild man but that is just typical of a healthy and happy Golden.

In 2002 our family bought a golden from a breeder we thought was reputable. She, the dog, is not typical of the breed, even though we checked all the clearances, etc. She is hyper, has difficulties getting up, etc. So, I totally get your pain. We adore her regardless of this, just as you do with yours. We opted not to do surgery, but rather did other things to try and help her. The breeder offered nothing other than to return the dog...hah! Yeah right, with three kids and two adults in love with her! The breeder is now defunct...and I know you won't believe me, so the breeder was Maple Ridge Goldens. However, upon deciding to get a second puppy, a golden again, we did a boat load more of research. We called our vet for starters on recommendations for reputable breeders in the area (she didn't know a single one she would recommend!), the local GR society and ones in the northern and southern part of the state. Our local society would NOT recommend any breeders. They said, check them out very, very carefully. We did. It took us a year and a half to find a breeder in the midwest that we trusted and checked out thoroughly. We even sacrificed a down payment on a pup when we felt as though the breeder was not trustworthy (even though we had checked her out thoroughly). We finally found a breeder we trusted. We bugged her with a lot of phone calls, emails and tough questions. We got an amazing pup from this place. He is solid through and through. He is incredibly typical of the breed. Our vet cannot stop commenting on how good of a golden we have. Our trainer, who has been working with dogs for over 15 years said this is the second golden that he has worked with that he thought was a product of good breeding! People stop us on the street to comment on him and ask where we got him. He is now two and is a product of Ke-Li's Golden Retrievers.

My husband and I purchased a puppy from Sue. We have had a WONDERFUL experience. I think it is both sad and ridiculous that these allegations have gone this far when she CLEARLY is a repuatble breeder. I have been in contact with Sue with questions both before and after receiving our puppy, Maggie. She has always been more than willing to help. The professionalism shown in person, via phone and on her webpage clearly speak for themselves. Sometimes things can happen that is out of our control. As an owner of an older golden retriever (which came from a pet store/puppy mill), my husband and I experienced firsthand the trauma of owning an imbred, large breed dog. We were extremely cautious in our choosing of a breeder. It was not an "overnight" decision. Her website is clearly laid out. I pulled my own contract (which, I am sure is the same) and found the clearances and the things that are not covered. She has been kind enough to offer another puppy. It seems that at this point, you have only a few goals in mind: Destroying her reputation as a breeder, and Trying to argue your way out of a contract for benefits (money). Your main concern should be the PUPPY. I believe that Sue has been MORE than fair in her actions. If she had any malintent, you wouldn't have had a gracious offer of another puppy. Their pedigree PROVES that they are not just "ordinary" puppies. The price is fair. The contract is clear. The customer is being absurd and has NO proof of any wrongdoing on Sue's behalf. If you (the customer) were really concerned about the puppy, you would be handling this situation in a mature manner. I don't think that ANY amount of effort will be enough for this person.

I agree with djalmurphy and may I add, well stated. We have purchased 2 goldens from Sue. Both being the product of Cissy and Costner. Our oldest Golden is 5, and is a certified Search and Rescue HRD dog. Our second one is 14 months old, and is in training for Search and Rescue. Both dogs visit the vet regularly, and are very healthy. I am of the opinion that genetics are not the only factor when speaking of dysplasia. Puppies are still developing bone and muscle up to the age of 2. Being full of energy, puppies can be easily overran during play time. Caution should also be taken with agility equipment, handling, and jumping up and down from high surfaces.

Sue is a wonderful breeder, and I highly recommend her to everyone.
RJS

We have a perfect Golden that we purchased from this breeder. We couldn't be happier with our dog & would not go anywhere else to get a Golden. I've recommended her to many of my friends and will keep doing so as I feel her heart and abilities are all in the right place. Thank you, Sue, for your continued dedication towards the breed!

I purchased a golden from Sue that is now just over a year old. I did some exhaustive research after we lost our first golden, and Sue was one we decided to contact even though she is in the complete other end of the state. Immediately upon speaking with her I had a feeling she was the right one. I did not jump right in, but after discussion with my wife, we both decided Ke-Li's was the breeder to use. Our puppy, Murphy, has been a complete joy. He had HUGE paws to fill from our beloved Hoosier, but is well on his way to being just as great a dog as he was. Our vet has raved about Murphy in every visit, and the staff always jokes about taking him home. We have asked about his hips, knowing he is too young to have them checked, and the vet tells us his hips, elbows, and eyes look great at this time. You will NEVER convince me that Sue is a bad breeder. I have recommended her to friends of mine, but not many people want to drive the 6 hours to get a pup. I, on the other hand, will NEVER use another breeder. KR

Wow - no fewer than 7 puppy buyers all joined this board on the same date to post nice things about this breeder. Does that seem a little peculiar to anyone else?

We purchased a Golden puppy from Sue just over 2 years ago. Murphy is a gorgeous, healthy, and beloved member of our family. The experience of dealing with Sue has been nothing but POSITIVE for us. I did so much research and corresponded with Sue for over a year before our family made the final decision to get a puppy. I have pages and pages of emails that we exchanged. She went above and beyond what we expected of her. We had previously owned a Golden from a "backyard breeder" and we wanted to do it RIGHT this time. We have 2 young children and Murphy has the best temperament. He's a perfect example of what the breed should be. I can't tell you how many people have stopped me and asked me where I got Murphy. Sue is dedicated to these dogs. I have and will continue to recommend Sue to anyone who is looking to add a Golden to their family. We drove halfway across the state of Indiana to use Ke-Li's Golden Acres' Retrievers and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

We purchased our Golden Charlie, just about three years ago. His Sire was Costner. Charlie is the best Golden we have owned, our third. Sue was wonderful to deal with and we stay in contact with her. We would never hesitate to purchase another dog. We know our next Golden will be from Ke-Li's. Anyone to question Sue as a breeder is a fool-and probably not experienced in owning dogs. We know Sue loves all her Goldens and all her animals

Our experience with our previous Golden not from Ke-Li's who was diagnosed with renal failure by the University of Minnesota,
they said he needed "major surgery" or he would not live to be 6 months of age.

Our Shadow lived to the ripe old age 14!

We believe that some Vet Hospitals think surgery is the only route, and are in it for the teaching aspect.

We purchased 'Nadia' from Sue 2 years ago this coming July. Nadia has been a Godsend and a blessing to our family. As has Sue. We lost our golden 'Sunshine' shortly before I called Sue in tears after seeing her sight online. I just wanted to talk about her dogs and goldens in general. Sunshine had been with our family for 12 years and I was just sad. Sue was so kind and compassionate about our loss. She talked and talked to me, I am sure knowing I was not anywhere near ready for a pup. We talked about her kids and mine, losing family, and how amazingly difficult it is to lose a pet who has been with you through so many great and difficult times. It was the first dog I had ever owned and losing a pet is really hard. She did not try to sell me one of her dogs, she just cared about our loss. Eventually after talking with my husband we decided to see if we could go on a waiting list. Sue was wonderful with updates and answering questions. Since we got 'Nadia" I have called e-mailed several times over the past 19 months with questions; and she has always been available with help or called me back. Nadia has been healthy, is breed standard in her size, is wildly intelligent and we constantly get compliments on her beauty. Better than all of this is her gentle and sweet tempermant. I am so sad for the owners of the dog mentioned. I remember how difficult it was when Sunshine was ill. My heart breaks for your pain. I in no way write this to make light of your pain. I just really love Sue and am so grateful for the blessing we have in our 'Nadia' and the kindness that she showed our family when she didn't know us from Adam.

No, Tubie, make that 10! I simply cut and pasted this complaint board address to a few families that have adopted puppies from me in the past several years. The ones that I have remained close to over the years and still had email addresses for. So many hundreds of families still out there that I couldn't contact that have similar stories to tell. Not only are these families part of my family now since they have adopted one of my puppies (some 2 and 3), but they are also wonderful Christian people that have been by my side in hard times and good times. We pray together and we care about one another. That is what FAMILY is all about! I thank God for each one of them and that He chose me for such a ministry as this!