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Sbfc mimics a federal organization webpage when they're not. The resources they offer after charging a membership fee is available for free on the website of entrepreneurship centers. They're evasive when you call them back demanding refunds: you always end up with a "receptionist". They cite success stories of others businesses online, but none of these have obtained their grant through sbfc. The fact is any bank like cibc can guide you for free on how to apply for a government-subsidized loan for your business. If they charged you anyway, work with your credit company to get re-imbursed: you have the right to get re-imbursed for a fraudulent product.
hi,
I got a refund of the first installment after I wrote them (and called) saying that I want to return their package to them and I find their service to be the same as what a bank can tell you for free. I was insistent, and told them I'll blog / write about it as well, and that they unfairly mimic a federal government page on their website.
I now hope they won't accidentally charge me a second installment.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
did you ever get a refund and if so how?
Yes, we have just experienced a fraudulant expense and we are trying to re-coop over $600.00 through our credit card company. Every listing for a grant or loan for small business listed in the binder supplied by SBFC all lead to having your bank help you get the loan through Industry Canada (your bank does the work for you once they approve it) OR to the Business Development Bank. DO NOT give this organization your valuable time or money.
I completely agree its a scam
I purchased the grant package from them back in late november - found it useless. Is there a way I can still be reimbursed? and how do I go about it?
Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
we are in the midst of awaiting refund, returned the information back to Toronto after a few phone calls.It has been 1 week since we returned it.
You are right I just got off the phone with 'Allen' and he kept pushing for my number and then closed his 'government' sales pitch by getting my address and trying for my credit card.
I asked is this the government when they asked for how I would like to pay and he replied ' Yes this is provincial and federal government backed ' which could EASILY be seen as this company is the government
http://www.grants-loans.org SBFC is very poorly portrayed there should be action taken so people aren't fooled into buying into what they don't want.
we just received full refund today after returning the initial documentation, credited on our Amex card! What a relief, we were very leary about getting anything back, but we caused quite a stink on the phone and told them we would go to every source, media, internet etc. to let the public know how useless their info is. That is when we received a call back to return it to Toronto.
I finally got a hold of someone today and they were less than helpful.
They were arguing with me about no refunds.
I tried to explain that they were mimicking the government which is unfair and that the information I paid them for was free from the bank.
I asked to talk to a manager or someone else, as this man was quite rude, but he said no.
Is there anything else I should try?
Who should I address a letter to?
Thanks.
What you just experienced, we experienced, We are from ottawa, and caused a stink to the local office then phoned the toronto office and again encountered extremely rude and abrupt people. the last one we spoke to, we said we were going to call all local media about them, call the government and go to every complaint website about them including the chamber of commerce and BBB. I don't know who finally felt threatened at that end, but we received an anonymous call message on our phone from a blocked number saying they were from the SBFC in Toronto and to mail the package back to toronto, with shipping instructions. We received the credit of over $600.oo on our Amex bill yesterday. It took about 2 weeks to see the credit on the card. My sincere wishes for luck sending your way. Be persistant.
Apparently this is the owner of the business according to this website:
http://www.benoted.com/seo-testimonials.htm
Trevor Byrne, Owner, The Small Business Funding Centre
Apparently this is what the guy looks like
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Byrne_Trevor_1141511339.aspx
The Small Business Finance Centre makes it very clear both on our website and on the phone that we are NOT affiliated with any government agency. We do provide valuable information on available government grants and loans. Our site lists thousands of recipients and some of their stories to back it up. Think about it: Where do you think all your tax dollars go? Hundreds of municipal, provincial and federal agencies are funding different agendas and if you know where to apply you might get some monies too. Nothing is guaranteed and we don't promise you will get funding and you should not believe anyone who does.
I am surprised about comments saying our materials are useless for anyone. There are success stories of people on the site who DID get monies through our centre but of course we cannot claim our materials and services are 'guaranteed' or a 'sure thing' for you.
If anyone has experienced impolite behavior from our staff I sincerely apologize. We do record ALL calls between staff and clients so we can investigate any rudeness and to insure no misrepresentation takes place. We do inform all clients there are no refunds at the time of sale and in instances of a past client claiming we did not inform them we have checked the recorded conversations and found to the contrary. We do sometimes give refunds to clients who are upset as a gesture of goodwill.
Customer Service,
Small Business Finance Centre
I fell into this scam with this company-SBFC. Now I'm tring to get my money back.
I also feel incredibly angry with this scam. The book is filled with all kinds of loan programs, I couldn't find any grants. When they asked me if my very small and CASH TIGHT small business would qualify they said yes. Even after telling them the nature of my business... Which, from what I can tell has no chance in hell of getting any funding at all. I completely thought it was a government organization and have been totally fooled by them. The information is available at institutions for free. All they have done is put paper together in a binder. It's a TOTAL RIP OFF $750! That's incredible for a binder of paper with free information in it. I was totally scammed and I am absolutely going to get my money back. Small Business Finance Centre is a scam through and through. Do not approach SBFC for $750 investment. www.Grants-loans.org is a scam.
I completely agree. I only wished I had found out abou this scam prior to ordering my package. I'm trying to get my money back as well. They did not inform me that they were not associated with any government agencies. The information they provided is absolutely useless to me.
I'm another in a growing list of people that fell for the sales pitch. $700 put on my credit card. I will be demanding a refund. it is buyer beware, and they know their web site and sales pitch are designed to lull you into their trap.
My next steps are a complaint with the canadian bbb, marketplace on cbc, and w5 on ctv.
The bbb has had 33 complaints at this time and ranks this company very poorly.
I will post an update as to how this unfolds.
Toronto
Trevor byrne
Owner, consumer centre inc.
Location
toronto, canada area
Industry
marketing and advertising
Current
* founder and president at consumer centre inc.
Past
* marketing consultant at bigdough.com
* sales manager at marylebone communications
Education
* university of toronto - new college
Connections
38 connections
Websites
* my company
Public profile
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/trevortoronto
Expanded profile views are available only to premium account holders. upgrade your account.
Summary
Entrepreneur and investor in numerous small businesses. founder and president of a successful information publishing firm "the small business finance centre" founded in 1990. currently employ 45 employees in canada and australia. opening in uk and france soon. experienced and enthralled by all aspects of direct marketing and call centre management. owned a residential painting company, and operated a rooming house while in university. subsequently ran a telemarketing office with 20 tsr's as a sales manager. past ventures have included a kitchen lighting firm, a construction company, franchise director and recruiter for a home renovation operation and president of national legal services firm for divorced men and women.
School of hard knocks experience as a venture capitalist for numerous start-ups - some successful, some not. I have lost (and gained) monies in ventures such as a barter company, a local search engine directory service, a bar/restaurant, and a custom postcard service. have possibly learned something from these good and bad experiences or at least I have convinced myself this is the case.
Specialties
Web marketing especially seo, direct mail/response and copywriting expertise along with call centre management.
This would be trevor's trusted friend that prints the garbage you pay your hard earned money for. the company explains you should receive your package in 7 to 10 business days. obviously they don't stock it because if they shipped it when they say, it should only take 2 business days by canada poste. so the print order would go to isaacs company and shipped direct to you when done.
Isaac oziel
President at corporate printing services
Location
toronto, canada area
Industry
printing
Current
* president at corporate printing services
* vice president at corporate printing services
Past
* vice president at continental press
Education
* york university
Recommendations
3 people have recommended isaac
Connections
35 connections
Websites
* my website
Public profile
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/isaac-oziel/3/725/114/
Expanded profile views are available only to premium account holders. upgrade your account.
Summary
I have been in the printing industry for so long that some people think I have ink running through my veins!
I love working with my clients and I am amazed at how often I learn something new about the print industry. technology has changed the industry but my approach has not. I am honest and straight forward person who knows that hard work and integrity go a long way.
My goal is to build my relationships with my clients so that they trust and count on me to deliver even in the most difficult situations.
Specialties
Corporate printing services specializes in end-to - end design, print and fulfillment solutions for companies of all sizes.
The scam in Australia, Trevor is very busy ripping people off.
www.australiangovernmentgrants.org
Hello, I would like to address some of the points being made by others in this thread about the Small Business Finance Centre.
Regarding Government Affiliation
The Small Business Finance Centre makes no claim to any government affiliation. Every page on our site states “The Small Business Finance Centre is an independent research organization not affiliated with any government agency” in an easy to read font in white text on a black background so that it stands out. Also, our website uses the .org domain name, which is used by professional and non-profit organizations. We do not have the .gc (Government of Canada) or .gov domain indicators used by government sites, nor do we so much as have the .ca (Canada) domain name as part of our web address.
Our site does use white and red, along with a stylized maple leaf, because the Small Business Finance Centre is a Canadian company. It is a stylistic choice for our Canadian firm's professional trade dress and nothing more. We do not use the Canadian flag or the official maple leaf symbol, both of which are found on government sites and are trademarks of the Canadian government. Neither the flag nor the official maple leaf images are allowed to be used by independent, professional organizations such as ours. These two elements clearly set government sites apart from professional organizations such as ours.
If you claim a Centre employee you spoke with indicated we were affiliated with the government, please call our client service number (see below) and provide information that will allow us to investigate the incident. Your call would have been recorded and an investigation will take place.
Regarding Free Information Availability
The Centre does not dispute that some of the information purchased by clients from us can be freely found elsewhere. Indeed, if you look through our site you’ll notice that we actually provide links to many of those other free funding resources. However, once you go looking for this information you will note it is spread out amongst numerous government and private departments and agencies that do not share information on these funding programs with each other. What we offer is this information and enhanced intelligence collected in one place, as well as advice and additional services, such as business plan development, that is intended to save you time, stress, and confusion.
By way of example, why do people pay additionally for a newspaper when the news within is available for free online or on television? Why do the newspaper publishers selling you that newspaper themselves offer that information for free from their own websites? They do so because some consumers prefer their information presented in different ways, just as some are comfortable doing all the research and leg work on business funding information themselves. The marketplace says there is a demand for information that is easily understood and convenient in order to benefit those whose time is valuable. Our Centre meets that demand and we are proud to provide this service.
Regarding Funding Guarantees
Our Centre is a professional service provider that aids clients in navigating the process of investigating government business funding by providing collected research materials and the like. We do not guarantee our services will provide funding and all employees are instructed to specifically state you must qualify to recieve funding. If you believe a Centre employee you spoke with indicated otherwise, please call our client service number (provided below) and do inform us. Your call would have been recorded and an investigation will take place.
Regarding Refunds
All prospective clients are informed that the Centre does not provide refunds, especially once materials have been delivered. All employees are instructed to specifically state there are no refunds during the phone call. If you do not believe you were informed of this no refund policy during your phone conversation with our employee, please call our client service number (provided below) and provide information that will allow us to investigate the incident. Your call would have been recorded and an investigation will take place.
Regarding Better Business Bureau and Similar Complaints
Our Centre is a business, and as such opens itself up to complaints. As of this writing, we do indeed have 33 complaints on record over the past 36 months. That averages at 11 complaints a year, or less than one complaint per month. If we hypothetically propose we have 1, 000 clients a year (we actually have notably more, so this small example is, in fact, being less than generous to us by portraying our company more negatively than the reality of the situation), those 11 annual BBB complaints works out to 1.1% of our overall clients. That means 98.9% of the clients in our hypothetical situation are not complaining about our services. Businesses get complaints. It’s a matter of doing business. If you look up large companies, such as your favourite restaurant chains and telecommunications companies, you’ll notice complaints number in the thousands. Do these thousands of complaints mean those companies are frauds or not providing legitimate services? No. Those complaints also mean that not all clients are happy all the time, and that sometimes the two parties cannot agree upon a resolution.
Specifically looking at the 33 BBB complaints over the past 36 months (as of this writing) we see that the BBB considers 32 (97%) of them resolved. Of the 32 complaints the BBB considers resolved, 7 (21% of overall) considered the Centre to have taken the necessary steps to properly deal with the issue but it was the complainant who did not even respond in kind, 24 (72% of overall) are considered outright resolved by all involved parties, and 2 (6% of overall) are considered resolved by the BBB with their understanding we took reasonable steps to solve the complaint but it was the complainant who refused to be reasonable in return and accept the solution offered.
This information is freely and publicly available through the Better Business Bureau’s website. Looking at how those numbers break down by examining the facts at hand, those 33 complaints filed with the BBB are hardly the condemning indicators some would have you believe they are. A complaint is just that: a complaint. Anyone can make a complaint for any reason. Whether it is legitimately an issue is another matter and, as the numbers for the Centre clearly illustrate, the BBB is satisfied that we deal with these complaints properly in 97% of recorded instances. If you investigate some of your favourite, better known companies that you shop or eat at every day, you’ll note that’s a lot better than can be said of most of them.
Regarding Not Receiving Your Package On Time or At All
Our Centre uses Canada Post, expedited shipping to send clients their packages. These orders are sent to our fulfilment process daily. Fulfilment (printing and shipping) is handled off-site and, for many reasons such as storage space and security, turnaround time, specialized employees, and cost, off-site fulfilment like this is by far the norm in publishing. Our track record with shipping is very successful, but packages do sometimes take longer than expected for a variety of (common and unavoidable) reasons. For example, if your address is outside of an urban centre, Canada Post may not deliver directly to your address, instead leaving you a card that may not reach you right away or you may not respond to immediately, and, of course, sometimes Canada Post makes mistakes or there may be human error when preparing the packing slip. One of the more frequent problems is, actually, a matter of the client's credit card being declined, at which point we don't ship the product and the client may not yet have received or responded to our attempts to contact him or her. If you believe you should have received a package but have not, call our client service number (provided below) and your ticket will be given priority.
Small Business Finance Centre Site Links to Government Programs
The following page on the Small Business Finance Centre website provides a list of dozens of government programs merely by clicking on “view all programs.” This list can be used by people browsing our site to find these government programs without contacting us for our services, cutting the Small Business Finance Centre out of the process entirely and allowing a website visitor to pursue funding via their own diligence. We do not bury, hide, or obscure this information on our site. Indeed, we do not even need to list it on our site. The information is easily found and available with a few simple clicks, starting from our site’s main menu.
http://www.grants-loans.org/programs.php
Small Business Finance Centre Client Success Story Videos
The following links are of Small Business Finance Centre clients explaining how the Small Business Finance Centre directly helped them get funding for their business. These are not commercials scripted by us, but actual client experiences. All links are easily found and accessed on our website. We are continuing to expand the number of videos we offer.
BUSS Financial Group: http://www.grants-loans.org/video.php?id=95
Safe Tech Alarm Systems: http://www.grants-loans.org/video.php?id=2
Sell-IT! Online Depot: http://www.grants-loans.org/video.php?id=3
Canada’s Diaper Ladies: http://www.grants-loans.org/video.php?id=10
Aziz-Ghawi Mohammad Alhusainy, sculptor: http://www.grants-loans.org/video.php?id=20
Our site does also include video experiences from non-clients, but these are provided to explain how the funding process occurs in the words of actual successful applicants as a means of reassuring prospective applicants. In such cases, the Small Business Finance Centre makes no attempt to obscure this fact or lay claim to being the facilitator of the successful funding. This is why each video is accompanied by the information “These videos will show you what kind of businesses may apply to government grant and loans programs, how to create a winning application, and much more.”
Small Business Finance Centre Client Success Story Articles
The following links are of Small Business Finance Centre clients who used our services to help them get funding for their business. All articles are easily found and accessed on our site. We continue to expand the number of Small Business Finance Centre client articles we offer.
Halls Kitchen: http://www.grants-loans.org/blog/?p=383
Rosemary Smyth and Associates: http://www.grants-loans.org/blog/?p=348
Chips & Kerry Home Staging: http://www.grants-loans.org/blog/?p=292
Puppy Luv: http://www.grants-loans.org/blog/?p=261
Spectacle Lake Lodge: http://www.grants-loans.org/blog/?p=223
Mistystix : http://www.grants-loans.org/articleview.php?id=556
Our site does also include articles from non-clients, but these are provided to explain how the funding process occurs as a means of reassuring prospective applicants. In such cases, the Small Business Finance Centre makes no attempt to obscure this fact or lay claim to being the facilitator of the successful funding.
Regarding Rude or Misleading Company Representatives
When dealing with anyone on the phone in a sales or client services capacity, always be sure to get a name and return phone number in order to protect your interests. If a Centre employee was rude or misleading with you, that is an issue we would like to take care of so it does not happen again. Using your name and the employee name you provide, client services can check your claim versus the recording logs we retain of all such conversations for purposes such as this.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
steve@fundinghq.org
Small Business Finance Centre Client Service: 1.800.663.8525
Such a formal response!
Re - Government Affiliations
While it is true that they do not say they are the government, they do imply that they have close contacts with government offices across Canada when in fact if you were to visit your local office in your city, they would tell you to avoid this company. That the information they CHARGE YOU FOR is readily available FOR FREE from the government offices directly. If you complain to the government offices, they will file a complaint with their offices to be investigated. Chances are that once the government office contacts the company regarding your specific case, they will reimburse you instead of pursue the charges. It is better business practice to avoid as much attention as possible for what they do.
Re - Information Availability
The information contained in their lovely packaged book is largely inaccurate or outdated. They give you a series of incomplete program overviews or programs that no longer exist all together. Out of the 800+ page book, over half of the programs are repeated albeit under different program titles, but they are the same programs. A bit redundant, no?
Re - Funding Guarantees
There are no longer ANY government grant programs which are accessible by companies who are typically purchasing these books. Instead, only "Government" loan programs which you will end up visiting your very own local bank's nearest office to apply for in most cases. When you use the tools on the website, you will see YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR $250, 000 GOVERNMENT LOAN & WAGE SUBSIDIES. Now, depending on the province you live in, they are not available and the "GOVERNMENT LOAN" is really a loan from your local bank which they government may or may not guarantee since the loan is very dependent upon what you are using the funds for.
Re - Refunds
If you really want to save your time, think bank to when you were first solicited by this company's telemarketers and they tell you that you can GET A REFUND IF YOU WRITE THEM A FUNDING SUCCESS STORY THEY CAN PUBLISH ON THEIR WEBSITE OR PUBLICATION. So, if you are really tired of fighting with the company or you just really want your money back, do this. It is easier, even if it is not true.
Re - BBB Complaints
Most people simply do not complain to the right sources. SBFC is not actually affiliated with the BBB in Canada and depending on which company you reference "Small Business Finance Centre or Small Business Funding Centre" you can be redirected to mailing addresses in Ottawa or Toronto. Some of which are just that, mailing addresses and not offices themselves.
Re - Government Links
This is done to assist the company in website optimization for searchability reasons. The more links you have to governments and institutions, the higher rating your website can get from various search engines and thus lead you back to their company more often.
Re - Success Stories/Client Success Stories
Most of these are success stories that have been taken from other websites or blogs which overview how "X" government program helped them. Many of these stories are either written to simply get a refund or not really SBFC clients. Probably they are being written by someone in India for $1 and then edited here for some language purposes.
Re - Company contact listed here
Pseudonym or fake person.
In the end, if you do your due diligence (something you will have to regardless of the book or not) you will end up researching and finding valuable information you could have gotten for free. I would recommend that you use your computers or call your local government office. They can direct you to the office(s) or person(s) you should be talking to - THE GOVERNMENT - not this company or the "Senior Consultant- David Hatton" who tried to sell me a business plan for an extra $2, 000 on top of the money I foolishly spent on this reference book.
Trustrum,
You know you're full of it.
"Content Manager" at the SBFC is you contribution to the world? Your greed and dishonesty is helping no one, not even you.
Try living with honour, dignity and humilty.
I wonder what would happen to you if you taught a course on "Content Management" to people with disabilities ? Face to face, every week. Get to know them.Would you take their money ? Is what you're offering of any value at all? They have much to teach you about this life.
See if you can sell the SBFC's "product" in person, minus the wall of decete and lies. Wouldn't work, would it ?
More to follow from Toronto...
Specialeddy, Toronto,
I'm not here to argue with either of you, and the purpose of my posting objective facts certainly was not to enter into a debate regarding your subjective opinions. The information to refute your claims has been posted and the existence of the companies in the provided links crediting SBFC with helping them attain funding can easily be verified by using a search engine, just as can the fact that we've worked with the BBB to resolve complaints filed against us. I will say, however, that 30 seconds on a search engine can determine if I am a "pseudonym or fake person" or, as is the case, a real person. As with any claim one makes against a company or person, one should always check their facts before posting slander and misinformation in a public forum. If you have a specific issue to bring against the SBFC, please contact the Centre via the provided means in order to resolve them.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
steve@fundinghq.org
Small Business Finance Centre Client Service: 1.800.663.8525
I wish I had googled the Small Business Finance Centre before I was sucked in to their scam. I knew something seemed sketchy about the whole thing, but I went ahead & agreed to ordering the package anyway. Motivated by my eagerness to find funding for a business I wanted to purchase, I took a chance on this being a good investment. The very next day, I realized how silly it was to spend $650 on paper & tried to cancel the product being shipped & my credit card to be refunded. The person I spoke to informed me they would check to see if it had been sent out yet & then call me back...of course they did not call me back.
To the looooong, well written comment/explanation by Steven Trustrum, all that proved to me was that the company is doing a good job of covering its butt in "appearing" legit, when in actuality it isn't. Legally speaking it appears legit (ie print at bottom of webpage, never "technically" claiming to be government affiliated etc), but really it's you just found a way to scam people legally... congratulations, hope the company & its employees are proud of themselves
Make your voice be heard,
The Small Business Finance Centre publishes and provides a collection of information on government grants and loans programs. We sell this to people. It's not just what we claim we do but is, in fact, what we ACTUALLY do. We have the people who have purchased the product and gone on to receive funding to prove this--it's not an opinion, it's not a scam or a line to trick people into giving us money, it's FACT. A scam does not, by its nature, have ANY satisfied customers whereas the SBFC has plenty of them, for example. We even have some of them graciously stating as much on video or in interviews upon our website.
We do not, however, guarantee funding because of our product because only the government can do that, nor do we guarantee you will find a program your particular business will qualify for, as the onus of that is based on the eligibility of you, your goals, and your business plan. When paying us for our publication, you are not paying us to evaluate your idea, your goals, or your business plan anymore than going into a restaurant to buy a meal means you are paying the cook to decide if the food you choose to order is bad for you. The product is explained and it is up to you, and no one else, to decide if that is something that will have value for you and fit what you're looking for. In short, we do not just "appear" legitimate. We ARE legitimate. If you did not undertake the due diligence any customer should take before buying a product--ensuring what they are receiving is, in their opinion, worth the amount you will be charged for the publication--then the onus of your error is on you and no one else. If you did not do that, it does not make us a "scam" as you slanderously and erroneously claim, but rather makes your purchase from the Centre one of impulse. An impulse buy is not the vendor's responsibility to guard against, it's the customer's considering they are the one with the purchasing power and are best able to judge what is in their own best interest.
If, however, you feel you were misled or anything of a similar nature by the sales person you spoke with then please do contact our customer service department. Your call with this sales person would have been recorded and we can easily verify any claims in this regard and handle it appropriately.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
steve@fundinghq.org
Small Business Finance Centre Client Service: 1.800.663.8525
this makes me sick. i just purchased and received this package in hopes that it would help me find grants and start my business. instead, i found completely useless and outdated (and irrelevant to my business) information that could have been easily found online. the sales woman i spoke to pre-purchase never told us we would be receiving a book full of outdated pages (merely lists of gov't programs) easily found online...
and the supposed "bonus video" is a complete JOKE. the information is SOOOOO outdated and useless.
these people should be ashamed of themselves, taking advantage of small business owners with families who are trying to do something good and instead getting ripped off and becoming skeptical, negative and un-motivated. it's sick.
i plan to get a refund and hope that others looking for grants read these complaints before they make the same mistake i did.
jlane81,
If you purchased the package recently you have the information compiled for the 2010 publication. Some of the information will certainly be outdated, as the government may have altered it since printing, but we have full-time staff that collects and updates the information for each year's publication. The upcoming 2011 publication, for example, will include the most recent information on the programs within that has been made available by the government at the time it goes to print, but that's no guarantee the government won't change something the day after. This is why buying a package entails up to seven years of getting the publication. And, as I've stated elsewhere in this thread: yes, the information within is provided online by the government. However, it is not "easily found" considering one of the most common complaints made to the government regarding their grants and loans programs is the difficulty in finding the relevant information and government's laxness in raising public awareness about the very existence of government small business funding--indeed, the information is generally so difficult to find that many people don't even realize there is such a thing as government small business financial assistance. Still, we do not claim to offer any "secret" or "hidden" government funding information in our publication--that's not what we are selling. What we're selling is a convenient compilation of the relevant, available information that is often buried and difficult to find because it is scattered across and deep within the programs' respective government sites.
Considering there are hundreds of programs listed, the Centre's publication is thorough, extensive, and covers the available areas of funding, but because the publication is a mass compilation, obviously not all information is going to be relevant to any one business. A 40+ year old entrepreneur looking to open a garage, for example, will not get much use out funding of programs listed within that are specific to exports, young people under the age of 34, or farmers. It's also entirely possible the nature of your business, or the ideas you have that you hope to get funding for, simply won't have a qualified funding program available at the time. This is why we cannot guarantee our publication will result in funding. It's a tool, something to help with researching government funding, and the information can only be as good as the ideas and purposes of the people using it.
As for the DVD, it was shot within the past decade and does not deal with government grants and loans programs specifically. It offers very general advice, such as using inventory management to reduce costs, how to attempt getting funds from unorthodox (non-government sources), and how to increase profit flow by better managing your paperwork, such as outsourcing invoicing. Considering none of the DVD's information is time-specific, meaning it will always remain relevant (it was designed that way), I fail to see how it can be "outdated." It may be "useless" to you specifically because, yet again, not every business is in a position to make use of all information, but that can hardly be said of all businesses and all people watching it considering the advice within is still taught in business administration and management courses due to its continuing relevance.
The fact that your particular business idea or purpose was apparently not eligible for any of the programs (assuming you thoroughly looked at them all and are not merely generalizing) does not mean the same can be said for everyone else, especially those who credit this same publication with pointing out programs they've otherwise failed to notice. The simple fact is not everyone is eligible for government funding (the majority of applicants are not, considering the ratio of small businesses in Canada compared to the available funding programs), and the Centre is not in any way involved with the government's process of determining those qualifications, nor do we assess your personal eligibility prior to selling you the publication anymore than a cashier in a bookstore makes sure you like the genre of the novel you are asking to buy before he allows you to pay for it. As the customer that is your responsibility considering it's your money.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
steve@fundinghq.org
Small Business Finance Centre Client Service: 1.800.663.8525
All the information is here www.canadabusiness.ca
If all the information found in the publication is available at www.canadabusiness.ca, I suggest you go to that site and type "Advance Technology Centre" into their search engine. You'll quickly find their program is not listed on the site you claim has "all the information." Why? Because it is a private company offering assistance to qualified technology-oriented entrepreneurs. The Small Business Finance Centre's publication concerns itself with small business funding, most but not all of which comes from the government. The site you provide (www.canadabusiness.ca), however, is a government site handling government funding programs. Obviously, this means not all the information in our publication will be at this site.
The Centre has total transparency regarding where it gets its information from. I said in my very first post we get a lot of it directly from government websites. We never claim otherwise. We do not claim we have some sort of secret information or special access to data the general public does not. We do not claim you cannot find the information without our help. What we do claim, and consequently what we provide, is that we have scoured the numerous, publicly available private company and government sources of information (on the Internet and otherwise) to gather and collect into a single location the available information on Canadian small business funding. If sites like www.canadabusiness.ca find the funding you need without ever dealing with the Centre that's great--more power to you and good luck with your venture! There are certainly more small business owners in Canada doing this on their own than there are Centre customers considering small business ventures make up the majority of businesses currently operating in Canada, so clearly plenty of entrepreneurs do just fine without the Centre's publication.
However, the simple fact that some would-be or existing small business owners feel our publication is worth buying clearly indicates s two things: 1) not everyone can find this publicly available information as easily as you claim (otherwise they wouldn't bother calling us to begin with) and 2) some people are willing to pay someone else to find and gather the information on their behalf because they don't have the means, time, online skills, or inclination to do so on their own. The Centre's publication won't help everyone get government funding. It's just an aid, not a guarantee. But some people do use the publication and get funding as a result. Now, some people in this thread feel the Centre is a "fraud" because they purchased the publication and didn't get any use out of it. While unfortunate, that is not necessarily the publication's fault considering how extensive it is--frankly, maybe the entrepreneur's idea simply doesn't qualify or outright isn't viable. It's easy to shift the blame in order to forget that most ideas people have for a small business are, statistically speaking, fated to fail. It's just the cold truth of the math. And then there are people who pay for the publication and later find the program information online at sites such as www.smallbusienss.ca and claim we are a "fraud" because of that. Well, that doesn't make us a fraud either. All that means is the customer didn't do their due diligence before spending the money and begs the question: if they were willing to search for the information AFTER buying the publication, why on earth weren't they willing to do so BEFORE buying it when it could have saved them money? Such oversights on the customer's part doesn't make the Centre a fraud either, any more than a newspaper such as the Globe and Mail is a fraud because you go and pay for it and later see the same news stories available for free online, at their web site and others.
While the Centre is very open and willing to deal with legitimate customer service issues, such as shipping problems or instances of a sales person misleading them (and I'll reiterate, we do record sales calls so if this is the case we will handle it appropriately if you contact us in this regard), a customer purchasing our product and either not using it to its full potential, later finding the information on their own, or buying it with the hope that it will provide some magical financial solution for a business idea that simply isn't viable and/or doesn't qualify for any form of financial assistance is NOT the fault of the Centre's publication and does NOT, in any way, shape, or form, constitute a "fraud" or "scam." It is the responsibility of the customer to ensure the tools they are paying for are right for their specific circumstances and if they buy the wrong tool for their specific needs it is not that tool's fault nor does it negate the fact that it is factually the right tool for other people with different circumstances, just as a student taking a class he subsequently fails to pass cannot legitimately claim their text books are at fault for their failure despite other people who pass same class while using those same text books. Because no matter how many times people in this thread want to scream "fraud!" or "scam!" one fact simply will NOT change: we have people who buy our publication and outright credit it and the Centre with putting them on the right track to successfully getting the small business funding they subsequently found and applied for. Frauds and scams do not produce successful results.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
steve@fundinghq.org
Small Business Finance Centre Client Service: 1.800.663.8525
Trustrum, you're still full of it ...
* Content Manager at Small Business Finance Centre
* Owner at Misfit Studios
Past
* IT Support at Consumer Vision
Education
* University of Toronto at Scarborough
Connections
12 connections
Industry
Publishing
Websites
* Company Website
* Personal Website
* Blog
Steven Trustrum’s Summary
I make an effort to learn new things on the job, and seek to improve upon what I already know. I prefer to complete a task as soon as possible, so as to be able to move on to the next goal. I approach problems logically, from various angles, in order to determine what the best solution may be.
Steven Trustrum’s Specialties:
Technical troubleshooting and learning new skills. I am a goal-oriented problem solver.
Steven Trustrum’s Experience
*
Content Manager
Small Business Finance Centre
(Publishing industry)
July 2010 — Present (5 months)
* Was originally contracted part-time as a freelance SEO content manager to oversee remote SEO writers and edit incoming articles.
* Currently working as full-time content manager, overseeing SEO writers and editing incoming articles.
* Oversee web content flow. I assign blog articles and the like, edit them, and ensure they are properly categorized and tagged on the site.
* Tasked with finding instances of online complaints in order to address them.
* Oversee quality control, uploading, etc. of testimonial videos onto site.
*
Owner
Misfit Studios
(Publishing industry)
October 2003 — Present (7 years 2 months)
I took my experiences as a freelance writer and turned them into a small press publishing company I run on my spare time. Aside from all logistics and administration, I am the principle author, perform digital coloring and graphic design, book layouts, and marketing.
*
IT Support
Consumer Vision
(Privately Held; Market Research industry)
March 2000 — July 2009 (9 years 5 months)
Performed on-site technical support and maintenance, as well as provided project technical analysis and solutions, equipment upgrades, etc.
Steven Trustrum’s Education
*
University of Toronto at Scarborough
hBA, English, Sociology, 1994 — 1999
Activities and Societies:
college radio, student newspaper
After just speaking with a company rep I can see both sides of the coin.
The people who made the impulse buy were perhaps expecting to be hand-held through the business startup process. Clearly, the product is not meant for that purpose, although the company provides some mentoring (apparently a paid service) on the application process. Mr. Trustrum makes several excellent points on due diligence, information and application. My posting here and not purchasing their material immediately after the phone call is driven by the very due diligence he speaks of.
Indeed, the 'sticker shock' of the material was surprising. I too, after a casual review, mistook the website for a non-profit organization like the Canadian Taxpayer's Association. Grants-loans.org was my first phone call in researching business startup. My conversation with their rep gave me enough information to learn everything about my business before seeking financing. I got to their website through Youtube (their testimonials). I got here through verifying the veracity of the material on the internet, and after reading this thread, confirming what I already knew; that information is only powerful in the application, or, right tool for the job. If, after learning all possible about my business, and exhausting mainstream options through public portals for government financing, then I may return to grants-loans.org to pay for more information and guidance. But, buying their product now would be putting the wagon in front of the horse.
I certainly understand people being mad as hell for buying the material under the wrong impression. It probably feels like a bait & switch, like actual online scams. I'm afraid you all put the wagon in front of the horse.
In defence of those who did leap before looking, the website is not ostensibly explicit about being a paid service, nor does it encourage the due diligence of researching your business before seeking financing information and mentorship. The company rep not asking me anything about my business was a red flag; but I got the overview of what I needed to do next, and, to the obvious disappointment of the rep, buying the material now was not it. For the enthusiastic neophyte, it's understandable to want and seek 'one stop shopping' to get a business underway. Were I not to have the presence of mind to realize I knew little about my business, I would likely have dropped the money for their package. Instead, I'm doing research on my business. That being said, grants-loans.org is a business, and turning customers away is bad for business. Having operated for twenty years, I think they must be doing something right in helping people who applied the information. It was, after all, testimonials from those who got it right that got me to their website in the first place.
Dear Steve,
Can you kindly explain why some people have been charged $600, some $650, some $700 and some, like myself, $750? What is the breakdown in the costs of different packages? Just want to know why I paid $750 for a piece of firewood when I could have paid $600.
Thanks.
By the way, have you ever heard of W5? You might want to look into it, since they will probably be calling you soon.
Here's the link: http://www.ctv.ca/w5/
Priyajam,
The package you are referring to actually only has a single base price. The different prices you are generalizing in your post are the final cost to the client, who can be anywhere in Canada, after accounting for the addition of the different taxes and shipping/handling costs involved with mailing the package to people in Canada's varied provinces and territories, which subsequently fluctuates this final cost appropriately.
Regards,
Steven Trustrum
Content Manager, Small Business Finance Centre
contentmanager@sbfc.ca
I am a victim of this scam too. I am going to call police fraus squad to stop these guys.
Hello People, What the SBFC is offering is legal, so it is really not fraud, but don't stop reading! I will say it is a worthless bunk product, they float on the grey area of the law in my opinion. Worthless because you can get it all free elsewhere. My wife got trapped into it thinking it was government, typically it is places like this that provide people with the lesson and a new lookout alarm for the future, but at great expense. Because I had gone through similar things in the past I was prepared and got our money back. I picked up the ball once my wife realized what happened, it was not her fault nor is it yours, your new at this and excited, its natural to seek help just don't do it with them. I will explain how I got the money back and hopefully it works for you as it did us.
First do not lie be honest and use there crummy product to your advantage. There is in north America what is called the fair credit billing act, read it and learn how you use it, owning a small business you should anyways. It protects a buyer from fraud, or bunk product in this case. Because the SBFC sits on the grey area when they sell their worthless product legally, they will put forth a grey area explanation to you before you buy it, winding you down a very narrow path that keeps them safe and you just enough in the dark to not know your being sold junk. This gives you the advantage in the end however but you must go through the right hoops.
When they described to you what you were getting they left some things out that are very prudent for you to know as a person with a small business, or whatever you needed government grants for, this gives you the right to contest the product under the fair billing act. You need to make a list of these things to send to your financial institution and to the merchant, them, while the fraud investigation begins, I will give you some ideas. THey may tell you on the phone if you are given a grant you will be refunded your initial coast of the 600 plus you put into their product, well this is not so, well its not all the story. When you receive the product you will see that indeed you must be given a grant "and" give a testimony for their government lookalike site as to how they helped you to get the money back.
So what they have done, because they know the word testimony raises red flags to a reasonable person, is left this prudent information out when selling you the product. They then tell you once the product is delivered in the nomenclature and at this point you think it is to late, its never to late! Another thing they leave out and you will see it in what the man from SBFC says in his pathetic defence here is that there are no refunds, and this is not mentioned until you have received the product. He said "All prospective clients are informed that the Centre does not provide refunds, especially once materials have been delivered" you see that "especially one the materials have been deliverd" hmm sneaky!. Again this is prudent information you should have the right to know before you purchase the product not once you get it, but they will leave this out for fear of uncovering their worthlessness, their snakes in the end. There are other things, outdated information, useless application forms ie photocopies of government forms with sample written across the front, billing was from a company name not the same as SBFC, you actually did not sign anything... and so on... Make a list of all the aspects you were unaware of, they are your weapons as a buyer. What the fair billing act gives to you right to do is that you have the right to contest a product if it is not what you thought you were getting. And I know most people are hear because they got something they did not expect, cow dung flies wouldn't touch!
Next you will have to call SBFC, you are legally obligated to give them the opportunity to rectify the situation, do not settle for an internet complaint loophole they will put you through once they reaslize your unhappy, talk to management and be firm! Hang up and call back if they make you wait or send you to a message box this is time sensitive, if you do not do it fast your window of opportunity will expire. You are struggling to get your business started so you deserve your money back so do it fast and be concise. When you talk to management mention the fair credit billing act that you have now read, mention the aspects of the product that are not what you expected, ie I was not told I would have to give a testimony for a refund, if I had know this I would never have bought the product, and so on. What you are telling them is the product you sent me is not what was described to me to the point of displeasure, therefore by law you have the right to contest and get your money back. And this is true as long as they left out some information, I am sure they will its the only way to sell useless junk. Remember they sit on the grey area so slap them with it, they did not tell you everything you needed to know before buying there worthless junk. After this you will have to keep record of the time, date and person you talked with, you will mail this information along with the reason the product is not what was described to both them and your financial institution for legal reasons.
Last make sure they know that you are proceeding with the legal steps first and are giving them the opportunity to fix the situation before you officially start the fraud complaint with your credit company and the next level a boycott, media, BBB, ect... Alow the investigation to begin and put a stop on your credit card. As for me, I had a refund number the same day I called, I gave them time limits to respond before I went further. We GOt our money back for one reason alone, we got a product that was not what was described to us by the sales rep.
Good luck and next time make sure you look close and google a company before you buy from them.
Small Business Financial Centre or Small Business Centre however they want to portray themselves is a complete fraudulent scam!
What the customer service representative failed to mention is that the sales representatives usually offer to call you back from their personal cellular devices. There is no way these conversations are being recorded.
I called in to get some information and was immediately told that they could not discuss anything with me without my business partner also on the line. I was given a cellular number to call back and was told to call anytime (my first inclination that something was very off, why would a respectable consulting agency give out cellular numbers and work outside of business hours). Having both deciding parties present is a lesson from sales 101, how to close a deal on the spot.
When I did call back with my business partner, the first question we were asked, is if we have any established credit such as visa or mastercard (i could immediately tell the sales rep was trying to plant a seed to obtain our credit information later in the sale).
later in the sale he told me that will be 600 dollars and change and asked for my credit card over the phone! LMAO! He actually expected me to give it to him without asking any questions.
I told him I wanted to see the terms and conditions of the offer before giving him my credit card, he said he has never been asked that before, and he couldn't see why I just don't trust him and ask whatever I would like to know.
I was persistent in telling him I will not divulge payment information without seeing the terms of the sale. He explained to me that they do not have any. I responded that that violates his agreements with VISA and MASTERCARD! All services charged over the phone must provide terms and conditions for VISA and MASTERCARD clients.
He shrugged it off and offered me a package for half price around 300 dollars.
I'm sorry for those of you who have fallen victim to this scam. The website did look like a government website to me. BUT THE SALES PERSON WAS SO TRANSPARENTLY A SCAM ARTIST, I'M NOT SURE HOW OTHERS HAVE FALLEN VICTIM.
We were lucky enough to see this website the day we called and fortunately I put a hold on my credit card to investigate this further. Through extensive search, I found out they were indeed a scam and very glad we didn't have to go through the process of getting the refund back.
Good luck to people who actually fell into this! I'll for sure search every program very extensively in the future.
Do not get yourself involved with this company. My business partner and I made the mistake of falling prey to their dishonest and deceptive practices last week. After speaking to Eric Dell on the phone who assured us on TWO separate occasions during the conversation that we would find grant information for the SPECIFIC INDUSTRY that we work in, we came to find out that there was nothing available in their database for our specific needs. When I called back the next day to complain to Eric, his response to me was as follows: "Well, if you can't find the information that you're looking for, I suggest that you begin calling generic numbers of grants that aren't relevant to you... the people at those agencies might be able to direct you to the right place.." Well if that's the case, what the hell were we paying the Centre for? Why would I pay the Centre if an outside source is assisting me? Why not pay them if that was the case? Eric also told my partner and I in the conversation that we would be refunded should we receive a grant, but did not tell us that the refund was only guaranteed should we provide them with a testimonial for their website. Why withhold information from customers if your business practices are completely honest and ethical?
I also spoke to Mark at Customer Service and explained how upset I was. Not only was Mark extremely rude by cutting me off at every chance, but he flat out told me that it was our fault and that the Centre would under no circumstances offer a refund to us.
Needless to say, my partner and I work in the advertising and marketing industry and we most certainly intend to use our capital as well as our resources to publicize the business practices of this company as well as the conflict that we currently find ourselves in with them. Since the Centre is unwilling to admit that their representative lied to us, we will be taking the necessary legal steps to recover those lost funds.
SBFC (Small Business Finance Company) is a total fraud. I just submitted a complaint with the Canadian Better Business Bureau and I suggest anyone that has had a bad experience do the same. They already have 15 complaints against them which clearly speaks of their unethical business practices. They cheat small business owners out of hard earned money. There should be an investigation to shut down their operation.
Here is a link to the Better Business Bureau - http://mwco.bbb.org/.