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POWER review: www.download-provider.com 94

S
Author of the review
10:51 am EST
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I have searching for some material of my lessons. And I signed up for www.download-provider.com. But after I payed for USD4.87, I could't find the files I have ever found. I was cheated. After 3days, they charges me USD39.73+39.64. It is totally fraud. I feel angry and helpless. I think I should bring a lawsuit angainst them and get my money back. But I don't know how. Can anybody help me?

94 comments
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L
L
lolo
DE
Send a message
Feb 02, 2009 8:07 am EST

In the meantime, I have also found a side, for download-provider.com
Advertisement does (http://rapidlibrary.com). Look on the left side on top (Sponsored on the left).

I have found, that the operator of this side:
Mr. Namens Mikhail Smorodov Smorodov
is.

The Mail-Adress from Mikhail Smorodov is: msmorodov@mail.ru (Russia)

Maybe one should write down there also, that he for criminal sides
Advertisement does. Now I do it, in any case.

We should provide everything together for the fact, that this Mr. Ivashina
is caught and gets punishment.

I would also do immediately announcement, however, I live in Germany in a village and
if announcement has already done once against Internet deception. I have the feeling, that to myself
the authorities in our area with it generally yet do not know a lot.
A way to the police probably does more work than success to me.
Therefore, I think, we had to do everything together this deception better in completely
big bell hang and to authorities hand over which know a lot about it.

However, I am able to do only little English and always depend on translation.

We should be anxious everything, this deception everywhere where it is a matter of publishing
and maybe also write up the owner of the server where the side lies.

(http://www.serverconnect.se/)

I've written over the contact-Option. You can do also.

Today I already have several authorities and Websiten which deal with deception,
drawn the attention on download-provider.com.

I also am angry very much. Above all, because I cannot catch it, that such a side
simply thus in the net stops, without against it what is undertaken.

This must change!

S
S
Saurolophus
US
Send a message
Feb 02, 2009 12:04 pm EST
Verified customer This complaint was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Here's the e-mail I received (private info xxx'd out) when I signed up with Download-Provider.com for the $4.87 3-day trial. Again, while the revelation that I would be billed "39.73 every 30days" caught me by surprise, the reason I canceled my account--and credit card--was because in addition to the $4.87 immediately debited against my card, there were two other subsequent $1 "test" debits made by companies I'd never heard of within minutes of signing up with Download-Provider.com. My bank said that it appeared that Download-Provider.com had either shared or sold my card information to the other entities.

********************************
Please Do Not Reply to this email.
For Account Management and Questions please visit www.customersupporthelp.com
____________________________________________________________________________

Dear xxx,

Thank you for your purchase.

Description: 4.87 3-day trial, recurs @ 39.73 every 30days

Your statement will reflect that you have been billed by Viaty SL

in the amount of $4.87.

Username : xxx
Password : xxx
MemberID : xxx

WebSite : megadownloadpass

For the credit card ending in: xxxx

This purchases is subject to the terms and conditions of this sale.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have any questions, or for 24 hour account management and technical support please visit our website:
www.customersupporthelp.com

Contact Us By Phone: [protected]
********************************

C
C
Cyprodite
CY
Send a message
Feb 03, 2009 1:57 am EST

If you are a firefox user, open the download provider website and then in the help menu click on ' report web forgery' option. Give your reasons why you believe this to be a phishing scam to get peoples credit card and email information. If enough people report them then at least firefox users will be warned when they log onto this site.

L
L
lolo
DE
Send a message
Feb 03, 2009 4:43 am EST

Hello Cyprodite, I have it done.
To announce to Firefox/Google this side on your called way, is a good idea!
Many affected persons should really do this!

Greetings Lolo

L
L
lolo
DE
Send a message
Feb 03, 2009 4:58 am EST

Still a good possibility that of the affair becomes really followed:
http://www.antiphishing.org/.
There on contact us click and in the mail form "Pish story" choose and report!

L
L
lolo
DE
Send a message
Feb 03, 2009 6:09 am EST

In the meantime, I have thinned out the web a little bit further and, nevertheless, have discovered really the supposed owner of the download-provider.com side.
He is very active in a Russian forum and has written only yesterday there still diligently contributions.
See: http://www.umaxforum.com/showthread.php?t=30922:

The side is Russian and one can be translated with his browser.

The member's name there is: LOL

This would fit also to the fact that Russian sides advertise to the side "download provider.com".

Have, in addition, today to several Internet pages, phishing follow the deception case announced. If this side has also bragged here as a reference, so that one can convince himself that many people are concerned.

L
L
lolo
DE
Send a message
Feb 03, 2009 8:10 am EST

I am not sure whether this LOL does only advertisement for the sides, or
even the operator is.

W
W
walkirya
DK
Send a message
Feb 07, 2009 11:06 am EST

Hi all
I have the same problem as all you. I phoned to my bank to stop the payment I will see what happen whit this.
When i called to my bank (saturday afternoon )they told to me at they have received a notification about a debit from Bill Help Pro.
SoI did the following.
1) Went to this web site

http:/ billhelppro.com

2) Later to cancel and there I followed all the steps to stop with the suscription to Download provider.

Is very important at you make this, call to the bank and go to this web site .
To cancel your suscription to this absolute fraud company Bill Help pro ask you the following
Member ID, Site name (in this case Download provider), username and e-mail adress.
Personally I think at Bill Help Pro is a part also in this fraud, since they know perfectly what they are doing with the people. But anyway this last company (Bill Help Pro) is in charge of applying debits to all banks, that's why it's important to order the cancellation there. I hope this information will help all those like me were affected by this fraudulent crap.

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boooo45th
US
Send a message
Feb 07, 2009 12:04 pm EST

Download provider is a complete FRAUD! I checked out what their downloads are and they are just torrents that you can easily pull off of some other free torrent websites rather than having to pay to download them. They charged you for downloads you can get for free from somewhere else. What a complete rip off! NEVER USE THIS SITE!

A
A
angelichawk
MV
Send a message
Feb 08, 2009 4:38 am EST

fcuk dis site me too was cheated .. such an dumb ### ...

U
U
use_Google_and_don't_be_suckers
Melbourne Metro Area, AU
Send a message
Feb 09, 2009 7:42 am EST

Login for free

http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=download+provider&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=UxyQSZelApLFkAXl8YS-DA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

M
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Mad John
SE
Send a message
Feb 11, 2009 3:02 pm EST

A minute after I signed upp I'v got the inlogg, but not for download-provider.com, it was to some porn-site. I called my creditcard-company directly and blocked my creditcard. Whey said that "if you dont get what youv paid for, deny the transaction and sue them or demand your money back!"

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Bob
Leicester, GB
Send a message
Feb 12, 2009 9:54 am EST

Please stay well clear from this site, its one big scam, you can sign up for a free account easily. But they happily trick you into, signing up for other things. Which turns out not to be the original site. But some smut sites. Which con you out of money every month. Glad I found this out in time and was able to get my account stopped. Sorry for you others who didn't. Lets bring this site down.

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Rob
GB
Send a message
Feb 12, 2009 8:51 pm EST

Like others on this website, I decided to sign up for a 3-day trial on a website called www.download-provider.com for $4.87. When I signed up, I got no receipt by email or confirmation to the website called "www.download-provider.com". What I did get was a page displaying membership numbers etc to two websites. When I had a look these websites they were of adult content, which I DID NOT sign up for. I had suspicions so I contacted my bank and they confirmed that not $4.87 had left my account but three amounts of money which were $2/$8/$70. I tried to cancel the membership to these websites and did so with great difficulty (I Think). But I had to close my account, so that they were not able to take anymore money from my account. I am going to file a fraud complaint and hopefully get these fools dealt with.

MY ADVICE FOR FREE DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT EVEN GO NEAR THE WEBSITE CALLED:

www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)
www.download-provider.com (STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!, STAY AWAY!)

Sorry the last bit was abit of SEO, so that this report comes up, if anyone types in www.download-provider.com.

Also guys/gals, check with your banks and act fast to stop this money leaving your account. The company is called

clientaid - sunmedia (this will show up on your statement) or could be something else?

A
A
ahmad
SA
Send a message
Feb 13, 2009 11:24 am EST

i am from Saudi and i paid in this site 33 us . no activate code noting this site behest lies . i am sad about my lost money in this site

A
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Andrea
Enfield, GB
Send a message
Feb 14, 2009 8:51 am EST

Damn. I was taken in by this fraudulent site too. Have cancelled my credit card and have told my visa providers fraud department as much as I can.

Where can we go to complain about this site? it needs to be taken down.

F
F
Fomp
Tuscon, US
Send a message
Feb 15, 2009 3:12 pm EST

Poor babies! You couldn't illegally download music, software, and books, and got scammed? Awwwww.

R
R
Rar
IE
Send a message
Feb 15, 2009 9:10 pm EST

Gotta agree with Fomp, although I was going to say it more nicely.. :P

Yeah, the site's a scam. It's a dirty one too. However, it's playing on our gullibility. How many of you (us, I was looking for (out of print, but still in copyright!) books, but don't have a credit card and was suspicious at my rare search suddenly turning up an answer after typing it into google) were looking for illegal stuff? Yeah, they were stealing from you, but only because you were trying to steal from the people that own the rights to the music/books/etc. So..yeah, enough with the righteous outrage, peeps.. And you might want to watch it with the pressing charges. Downloading copyright materials is an offence, you might find yourself in trouble yourselves. Which is what the owner of DP banks on.

Oh, and there's another site which looks very like it, same shower, I think.. DownloadProvider and DownloadRealm are the same. And they have many links in.

mybooks.osa.pl/download-167.html
ksetbooks.bee.pl/download/release-102.html
easybooks.osa.pl/book/book-94.html

all lead to the same page/s, for instance. Anyone that wants your credit card details for a free trial "for your convenience" or whatever, is a scammer. Do your research.

P
P
philip andrew
Truro, GB
Send a message
Feb 16, 2009 7:31 pm EST

yep and me to wish i seen this site before i paid my money out same thing happened showed a file i really need thought it was worth the money to pay to get it paid the money file dissapeared 3 days later over a hundred pound outa my bank for three dif accounts so many people getting ripped off by this company surely someone somewhere can get there ### in court and put them out off buisiness quick perhaps it would be a good idea to somehow get hold of watchdog or something like that and out them on live t.v it should be on something like that so that not more people like us get ripped off its totally wrong its daylight robbery and surely they arnt working with in the law just taking unathorised money outa peoples accounts

S
S
Spy2
ZA
Send a message
Feb 23, 2009 4:55 pm EST

Tried to download a file from this site (http://www.dll-provider.com), was prompted to register for 3daytrial with http://www.megadownloadpass.com/
at $4.87, only to find the file never existed. Later I found out that my credit card was billed by http://www.AIDWITHSITE.com
for monthly subscription to 2 sites, even though I cancelled my 3daytrial before expiry.

It seems http://www.AIDWITHSITE.com is running the following sites:
http://www.dll-provider.com and http://www.megadownloadpass.com.
=====================================
The location of http://www.dll-provider.com is -
AMSTERDAM, NOORD-HOLLAND, NETHERLANDS.
Their ISP is - LEASEWEB (LEASEWEB.COM).
=====================================
The location of http://www.AIDWITHSITE.com and http://www.megadownloadpass.com is -
WILMINGTON, DELAWARE, UNITED STATES.
Their ISP is - PLATINUM EMEDIA INC. (platinumhost.com)
=====================================
Any replies to emails sent to http://www.megadownloadpass.com
come from -

66.207.198.114 = CANADA ONTARIO TORONTO, ISP: MARKETING EXTENSION/99ATLANTIC - (MARKETINGX.COM)
66.207.192.7 = CANADA ONTARIO TORONTO, ISP: BEANFIELD TECHNOLOGIES INC - (BEANFIELD.NET)
207.246.197.27 = UNITED STATES DELAWARE WILMINGTON, ISP: PLATINUM EMEDIA INC - (platinumhost.com)

S
S
Spy2
ZA
Send a message
Feb 23, 2009 5:18 pm EST

I think the banks should invest in a new type of credit card (similar to paypal), where if your online purchase is say $50.00, then you simply desposit only say $55.00 into the account. Everytime you do an online transaction, you only deposit the required amount. Since most of us seldom do these transactions, unscrupulous websites wont be able to defraud us.

Another method could be for banks to first sms the online purchaser with transaction details and amount, then prompt them to confirm if transaction is allowed (reply with Yes or No).

F
F
freereed
US
Send a message
Feb 24, 2009 12:09 pm EST

Nailed Them!

Yesterday when two charges showed up on my debit card for $39.73 and $39.95 from BillHelpPro.com and CSDHelp.com I searched them on the web and found they were collecting for porn sites. I went to my bank immediately and reported them, cancelled the card and waited for them to attempt to collect from an empty bank account. Meanwhile I found a suspicious email from a month ago saying I had signed up for membership to a porn site. Outrageous!

I replied to that email today with the subject line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudelent charges."

and content line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges."

Within five minutes I received two replies.. one saying my "account" (I had none) had been cancelled, and the next from Jettis International saying my bank account would be refunded $39.73 and $39.95 within five working days.

Unfortunate for them my bank's Fraud Squad has already been notified, and by the time Jettis refunds my account the Fraud Squad will be two days into their case against Jettis International.

Running a WhoIs on these two sites one is in Cyprus... but one is in good old Delaware. Go, Fraud Squad, Go!

I advise anyone who sees these fraudulent charges on their accounts, respond with just those two sentences... and by this sign they will know we have nailed them!

subject line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudelent charges."

and content line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges."

F
F
freereed
US
Send a message
Feb 24, 2009 12:19 pm EST

Nailed Them!

Yesterday when I saw two charges on my debit card for $39.73 and $39.95 from BillHelpPro.com and CSDHelp.com I looked them up and found that they were collecting for porn sites. Outrageous!

I went to my bank immediately and reported them, cancelled card, closed account and now we wait for these two charges to be posted so the bank's Fraud Squad can go after them.

Going back through my emails I found a suspicious one from a month ago saying I had membership in a porn site. Say what?

I replied to this email with:

subject line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudelent charges."

and content line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges."

Within five minutes I received two emails from Jettis International, one saying that my "account" (I had none) had been cancelled, and the second saying that my account would be refunded $39.73 and $39.95 within five working days.

Unfortunately for Jettis, by the time they refund my account my bank's Fraud Squad will be two days into their case against:

Jettis International; Vision eMedia, Delaware
Vaidis Company Ltd; Cyprus
BillHelpPro.com
CSDHelp.com

and most likely against

Download Provider

I advise anyone who sees these fraudulent charges on their account respond immediately by email:

subject line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudelent charges."

and content line:

"I have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges."

and by this sign they will know the jug is up!

J
J
JAMES
CN
Send a message
Feb 25, 2009 2:40 am EST

I am also a victim.
2-22-09 When I Register and started charging me $4.95 ... one dollar ... one dollar ... $9.82 ... and then on 2-25-09 ... they billed me $39.73 ... two times ... I've already contacted my bank and cancelled my debit card and filed a complaint. The out come is ... unknown ... I really dont want to lose 80 bucks.

J
J
JAMES
CN
Send a message
Feb 25, 2009 2:47 am EST

Who can tell me how to do?
I will try to contact support, but no response

V
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vladan333
Yugoslavia
Send a message
Feb 25, 2009 5:04 am EST

Two weeks ago I went to the Download Provider to aply for two day trail for 4 somethings $. I did not get any service, but I got 31 euros bill from some porn site. I wrote them a very insulting message asking them to refund me full amount, and they siad that will do it it in 3-5 business days. Two days later I checked my bank account and I realize that I was charged for 63 Euros from site www.bill4you.com. That means that Download Provider provided my card number detailes to this site. I checked www.bill4you.com out, and I find that site is based in England, on the address 11 Annfield Place Greencroft, County Durham, Stanley DH9 8NW. I started "bombarded" them with messages, threatening them with police in Stanley. Today I finally got the 63 euros refund on my credit card, but the initial 31 Euros that I got charged by the download provider is still being "held" on my card.

My advice to everyone is to cancel your credit card right away and to be diligent in sending them letters and messages until you get your refund.

F
F
freereed
US
Send a message
Feb 25, 2009 11:00 am EST

I want to make clear that it is not download-provider I contacted(WhoIs search says they are based in Stockholm) but the two companies fronting for porn sites that i contacted... it was Jettis International who refunded me the two charges.

like the person above I tracked down the name and addresses of the companies who were charging me... use the information from WhoIs.

also, curiously enough, in my email... just one email, subject line "i have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges, " content "i have notified my bank of these fraudulent charges, " I DID NOT name the companies or the amounts... yet immediately I heard back from David S at Jettis International that I would be refunded the two amounts $39.73 and $39.95.

S
S
Saurolophus
US
Send a message
Feb 26, 2009 11:08 am EST
Verified customer This complaint was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

freereed,

Let us know if you indeed receive those refunds.

J
J
JAMES
CN
Send a message
Feb 26, 2009 9:10 pm EST

[protected] 9.82 support69.com [protected] GB
[protected] 39.73 support69.com [protected] GB
[protected] 39.73 support69.com [protected] GB
[protected] 1.00 support69.com [protected] GB
[protected] 1.00 support69.com [protected] GB
[protected] 4.87 support69.com [protected] GB

M
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MrHome
SG
Send a message
Mar 02, 2009 4:16 am EST

Just a bunch of torrent crap. i already tried the site today with hacked acc to test it. When i try to download it come out torrents

G
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Ginny
GB
Send a message
Mar 02, 2009 1:50 pm EST

As one who fell victim to this scam in England, it would be advised to contact your bank/credit card company immediately, and stop your debit/credit card. I was fortunate in that my bank will refund all amounts debited, but I know some are not so lucky. To all of you who have done the detective work and found out addresses and more importantly e mail addresses, it would a great service to others if you could post all contact e mail addresses on here, so that future victims know which scam company they can e mail to vent their spleens and demand money back.

J
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JAMES
CN
Send a message
Mar 03, 2009 8:25 am EST

I am very unlucky, these swindlers refuse refund, My bank expresses helplessly

J
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Jellie
Bristol, GB
Send a message
Mar 03, 2009 11:04 am EST

CANCEL YOUR CARDS IMMEDIATELY!
DO NOT ring helplines or try to cancel, they will just TAKE & TAKE.
They have tried to take nearly£2, 000 STERLING so far.
My card is cancelled, and I should be able to claim most back as fraud is investigated.
Exactly as above, looking for a driver that does not exist. This/ these companies or fraud networks are huge, and loads of people are getting hit. Most pushing you into megadownloadpass.com with multiple porn accounts. WEB PROVIDERS ALL OVER THE PLACE, HERE ARE ALL THE RELATED CO's I have found so far, and I'm sure there is a few more. This info needs to get about fast! :- CHECK HERE

The 'store fronts':-

www.downloadnova.com
www.downloadprofessional.com
Baydownloads.com
Discountvideopass.com
www.cyberotica.com
www.megadownloadpass.com
various names@live.com
beemp3.com
filefortune.com
downloadprovider.net (possible)
download-provider.com
merchant,
bookmark,
Vipbookmarks,
merchant supportpolis.

Porn sites that they require you to pay through:-
Reality Porn Pass
Adult Movie Network
MILF Riders
Reality Porn Pass
Prolast
Viaty SL

Either part of or related to or being used by for torrents (?)
megaupload.com,
rapidshare.com,
filefactory.com
zonatorrent.com
Billing by: -
billing24-7.com
billhelp247.com
Epoch.com
CCbillEU.com
Assistcharge.com
chargepatrol.com
Billingsquad.com
secure.platinumbucks.com
www.supportcentr.com
securedatavalidation.com
Warezaccess

Help sites:-
customersupporthelp.com
cswebhelp.com
check-help.com
needbillhelp.com
helpfulfolks.com
help4bill.com
fasthelp4u.com
ezfasthelp.com
client-aid.com
receive-help.com
okhelp

R
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rik
BE
Send a message
Mar 04, 2009 5:00 am EST

I am a victim too. I have cancelled my VISA card. On this moment (4 march) website of download- provider is no more on internet. What is going on?

S
S
Saurolophus
US
Send a message
Mar 04, 2009 8:10 pm EST
Verified customer This complaint was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Both Download-Provider.com and dll-provider.com now appear to be AWOL. Good riddance.

R
R
rengard
US
Send a message
Mar 06, 2009 10:35 am EST
Verified customer This complaint was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

This guy Dennis has swindled so many people that someone might need to go to Sweden and pay him a little visit. This goes much further than just a few hundred bucks. He has now charged THOUSANDS of dollars on a credit card that replaced the original that was given to downloadprovider.com. Additionally, my credit card company has said that he now has my SS #! Don't push me Dennis...I can get to you...I can easily add some lead to your diet...

C
C
complaininguest
FI
Send a message
Mar 13, 2009 9:42 am EDT

To people who said that it's own fault for trying to dl illegal stuff:
Their "search" will give you whatever you want as somebody already said.
Many people search for legal stuff too ;)

Btw, their new site address. Firefox report etc anyone? I already did.

http://www.downloadprovider.net/

D
D
DJN
Stirling, GB
Send a message
Mar 31, 2009 10:05 am EDT

I've been having similar problems as a result of subscribing to download-provider.
My credit card company has been useless (EasyJet card via Citibank), I've been in touch with their (offshore) call centre four times today and have finally asked them to just cancel my card. When I asked the operator on the other end what would happen if the two companies that have been billing me: clientaid, and Help on the Go, continued to do so, I was told that I would have to contact the companies myself in order to cancel my subscription. Since I can't contact the companies (I never received a username, password, or confirmation code - one or other of which is necessary in order to cancel) I can't do so.
Does anyone know what happens if the card has been canceled, and these companies continue to try to bill me? Will the credit card company accept the charges and pass the bill on to me? Or does the credit card company simply tell them that the account is no longer valid?
It seems that I've got off (relatively) lightly compared to some people on this board - about £100. But since I'm unemployed at the moment, it's a considerable sum to lose!

D
D
DJN
Stirling, GB
Send a message
Apr 01, 2009 7:07 am EDT

I've got McAfee SiteAdvisor on my PC, and have "red flagged" download-provider.com as a company that should be avoided. I've described the likely experience that any subscriber to the site is likely to 'enjoy'. Hopefully it will act as a warning to others of the dangers of the site.
If anyone else has this facility, it might be useful to similarly add their thoughts of this company and rate it accordingly.
If enough people do so then when a search is carried out on Google, etc. all McAfee SiteAdvisor users will receive a warning in their browser when a search brings up this company as a likely source of downloads.

M
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Mojo from Scotland
Johnstone, GB
Send a message
Nov 02, 2011 12:41 pm EDT

firstly they [dl-provider] direct debitted £13+ from my account the they took £71+ for full membership! I tried to email them to ask what these charges were for and was sent emaill addresses that I can't contact! I've had to cancel my bank cards and have notifies my bank of this scam and they are trying to help. Lesson learned!
Mojo from Scotland