This organization will lie to you in so many ways that it’s unimaginable how they’re able to stay in business. First they will lie to your face when they tell you how much you’re going to be making. They’ll talk up a reasonable sum but when you get paid you’ll see that you’re making about two thirds of what they promised. That was my problem when I started working. They promised me $12.00 an hour to start but I was only making $9.00 when I got my first check. When I complained they said I was on a probationary period and wouldn’t get a raise until after the probationary period was over. When the probationary period was over, I didn’t get my raise and when I complained they explained to me that it’s up to the Union to provide the raise. I complained to the Union and they told me that it’s my employers responsibility to provide the raise.
Another thing I’ve noticed is the high turnover rate. At what they pay, they can’t keep anyone who is good at being a security officer. People leave all of the time because they can’t believe how they’re getting screwed. The people who stay are such terrible employees that they can’t get jobs elsewhere. So they all create a culture of laziness to support each other.
They also refuse to pay people what they promise their clients they intend to pay. They had the Chicago Transit Authority for years and kept saying that they have to raise their fees because the Union demanded it, the CTA had no problems with paying the raise but what they didn’t know was that the officers were making $8.00 and hour with annual raises of .25 cents a year, but being billed for people making $14 to $15 dollars an hour and semi-annual raises of a dollar.
Securitas also has the cheapest training program of any kind of employer that I’ve ever seen. They have these online training programs that are MS Powerpoint Presentations with simple tests at the end of each that you could only fail if you can’t read.
They also don’t seem to be interested in making sure that you’re safe when you do your job. There have been countless times I’ve been dispatched to respond to a situation with no one backing me up. I had to throw a homeless guy out of an ATM at a bank branch at 2 in the morning and there was a real problem with these homeless guys retaliating, one guy even used pepper spray on another officer.
If you decide to point out that your supervisor is a jerk, or screwing around, they will set you up to loose your job really quick. One Supervisor was notorious for sneaking off to take naps, and when one of his people complained management started to harass the complaining officers. They either set you up by isolating a single infraction, like being late for work or whatever, or they make your life miserable until you quit.
If you’re offered a job by this company, don’t bother trying to negotiate anything with them or getting it in writing, they will screw you over no matter what you try. Just pass them up and use your energies on something else. There are lots of good companies that you can work with, this one is a huge scam.
While working for the company I was also a full-time Police Officer and held many certifications within the security and law enforcement field. Securitas did not let my pay reflect that. They would bargain down to the bottom dollar. Paycheck after paycheck would come and sure enough my pay was at their discretion. I never had the same paycheck throughout my entire employment. I was more than qualified and they placed me a leadership position without the pay. I retained my employment for the fact that I enjoyed the duties I performed and the team I was working with.
On several occasions I would cover other contracts/sites as flex officer. How demeaning, but the overtime was good. The only issue was, again, my paycheck did not reflect the overtime that I had accumulated. Here I was helping the company and the least they could do would be to compensate me for my time.
While working as ERT, I had the area of approximately 20 square miles. Within 20 square miles I had a couple of large cities which contained populations 50,000 +. I responded to alarms regardless if they were false or actual. On one particular occasion the alarm company called me to respond to a particular location. They alarm company gave me the address and the alarm status. I was in the area and responded promptly within 6 minutes. After securing the site I determined that alarm was not activated and called the alarm company back with that information. I verified the site location name and address with the alarm company and explained that at the site the alarm had not been activated. I cleared the call without incident.
The next day I was called into the Securitas office. My District and Regional manager were waiting. They inquired about the alarm that I had the day prior. I explained what had happened and presented the corresponding forms that I had documented the alarm response. The District manager explained that an alarm had went off at another location which was the same client account. He stated that the client said that the building was vandalized and thousands of dollars of company assets were taken from the property. After looking at my paperwork and speaking to the alarm company, we ALL determined that the alarm company had given me the wrong location address which was associated with that client account. No fault of mine I thought. Boy was I misinformed. The Client wanted “someone to held responsible”, which was told to me by the District Manager. This particular client was Securitas’ largest contract in the immediate area. So go figure they are going to keep this client happy. So what does Securitas do they said they were “letting me go” and “terminating my employment” because I was an “at will employee”, not because of this incident.
Securitas, in my opinion and by evidence, misrepresents itself, violates labor laws, safety standards and is a money first before the employee company.
That is BS. The way you treat the company is exactly the way it will treat you. If you were a lazy, stupid employee then you know how they will treat you? They will treat you like a lazy, stupid employee. Its like that in any company. Unless the government payes benifits to a company that employs lazy, stupid employees. If you lived up to those 12.oo and hour instead of complaining and demanding for them, then you would get them.
I cannot wait to bring this company to court. I was unlawfully terminated for "insubordination". This came after the company requested that I would sign a "Voluntary Resignation" form. I refused at the most and requested that I would be terminated. Although, There was no excuse for termination it was granted. FSM Andrew Stokoe was making his little british comments directed at me, (Very rude comments). I spoke my peace directed at him. After I was terminated for unlawful reasons, I told Mr. Andrew Stokoe, He is nothing but a "Blow-Hard".
This after all was final, was the reason for my termination because this company never had a reason to let me go.
Amen this company is a bunch of crooks!
The corporation itself is only concerned with making short-term money, garnered by reaping profits from a huge client base in every major sector of the security industry. This leads to low wages and morale, poor and abusive management, illegal business practices and labor and safety law violations, and all this in a company with over 200, 000 employees which also promulgates nepotism, racism, and favoritism at the branch operations level. They are a poster-child for what large Private Security have ( and shouldnt have) become.
I agree with all the posts written. I began working for Securitas Security company immediately after being discharged honorably from the military. I work with them at a college campus for a mere 5 weeks. Within that five weeks I was quickly introduced to the ### that goes on there. Securitas guards work along side Peace Officers there. They pretty much govern what we do and how we do it. Everything was seemingly very professional. I felt underpaid. I had the option to fore-go my health insurrance for an extra dollar per hour which brought me to 10 per hour.
Nearing the end of my first week there I was harrassed by 2 of the peace offiers. Unfortunately they were the ones assigning the additional campus training and giving my weekly tests and alarm/scenerio drills. These guys would come up to my post one at a time twice each. Their story was a man (a Sergent Peace Officer) had put handcuffs on a woman and done sexual things to her and did I see anything? My telling the truth and saying "No." was not enough. When the 2nd peace officer came up to me another time I then knew this could get out of hand. At that moment I should have brought it up to the headquarters but I was so desparate for work I didn't thinking it would all slide by in short time. I was threatened that by me not using my military core values and agreeing to side with them that this could have a bad outcome on my employment there. I was approached twice more for the same situation. Sure enough I was fired for being in the wrong place. The place I was in covered my posts. However, my posts seemed to have been instantly changed. I was told I had the north side of campus which covers 50% of it. Where I was I had right to be. I was blamed for using their equipement etc.. without authorization of even having the post I was told by post command.
First day I worked there moral of all the other officers were low. Seemed like a project apartment hallway when I frist started working there. Everyone showing me their nooks n crannys to do nothing for the 9 hour shifts. Everyone with the exception of 3 were doing the absolute wrong thing.
As far as my pay was concerned, I was quick to ask for overtime. And I'd sure did get it. During our first shift we'd get a 30 minute lunch break which was not subtracted from our paychecks. However, if we done another 8 hour shift we'd get the first half hour lunch break as well as the 2nd half hour lunch break taken off. For some reason that was the way it works. So I figured it's really nothing to complain about. Instead of getting paid 16 hours I get paid 15 hours. Now when I get my paycheck which was weekly, it would say I was paid 13.65 hours instead of 16. It shows that I've done 16 hours OT but I'm only paid for 13.65 hours of it. Doesn't make sense to me. Also once per month Securitas removes 25 dollars for a licensing fee. Even if I was there longer than 5 weeks, I was only a couple more weeks from abandoning that job for another. It was totally not worth it and I wish even a year later there was something I could do about it legally.
Agree completely. I began working for Securitas shortly after relocating to Florida and obtaining my security license. My first experience with them should have given me warning. When I arrived for my interview, I waited 2 hours only to be told that the woman interviewed in front of me had gotten the position, but that they did have another opening that I could fill. This was in a location one hour from my home, but since I was in need of a paycheck I agreed. Actually, they basically told me that they hired me because I was white, and implied that this meant I was more trustworthy. So, not only are they money hungry and a horrible employer, but they violate EEO laws to boot. In any case, I reported to my post on time for three weeks, and NEVER received a paycheck. When I called to inquire, they directed me to the payroll office in NJ, who told me that they sent the check to the wrong address. Finally, after three weeks of not getting paid, I told them (truthfully) that I could not afford the gas to get to my post. They gave me the run around and would not answer my phone calls, basically forcing me to go in to my shift. Also, they would harass me on my days off by calling many times in a short span asking me to come in or work different/extra hours. However, when I would try to call, nobody would ever answer. Additionally, when I was hired they told me that I would only work third shift for the first day. However, it quickly became an everyday situation. The shift schedule was was erratic, and they would often have me work third and second shift in the same week. Overall, everyone is correct in saying that this is a huge scam with a giant turnover rate, and they screw you out of money and time.
Working for Securitas Services, means to be in a DEAD END, one step close to be HOMLES. The company knows that, and treats people accordingly. They can terminate you at any time, without a prior notice, and exploit you at the point that you quit. THEIR STRATEGY IS HIRE, AND FIRE. They are HIRING continuously because they are TERMINATING people continuously. Most of their employee are desperate people, not able to find another job. 90 % are illiterate and most of them ignorant. IF you decide to work for Securitas, that is your choice. There is only one explanation for their low pay. IF YOU PAY PEANUTS, YOU GET MONKEYS.
Here's one for the records. I was hired in January 2009, but they didn't put me to work until late February 2009. They promised me wages to compensate my having to drive an hour to work and back home. Instead, they paid me minimum wage. In one year's time, I was placed at four different sites. Last September, I took on a paper route, just to make ends meet. Now I'm on suspension for not telling them about the paper route. They said that it interferes with my working for them. They suspended me last month at Christmastime, because I refused to drive to a site an hour's drive away to sit in a parking lot for 12 hours in the middle of a snowstorm. I was suspended for three weeks for refusal of an assignment.
Securitas is the worst security agency you can possibly work for, I used them only as a means to complete school. However, when started with them was told about week later that the position was temporary but would in fact would become permanent due to the fact that a pending large contracting project with Halliburton would develop. I was the best employee you could possibly be, I followed my post orders to the letter and I never once reported late, I never complained about anything. There was an older black female loading dock sargeant who would actually cursed out anybody that made her mad, especially contractors. She would boast about being with Securitas for over twenty years (over twenty years and only made about $14 to $15 phr.) she would plot on who she would like to see fired next and use her twenty year clout to make it happen. Behind the white employees back she would say ugly things about their race and about them. There were two other sargeants and she would comment on how much she couldn't stand them. If a security officer would make a very, very, minor mistake she would call them "stupid" and express how she plans to get rid of them. The captain of the site was very aware of her behavior, but she even scared him and so he acted as if he didn't notice anything and allowed her to continue her ignorant behavior. After my asssignment was completed I was called into the office by the captain and was told that they had to let me go because my position was temporary and they had nothing left for me to do. I asked about his earlier promise that my job would be permanent after the assignment. His only answer was that I was a good employee and he wished that he could keep me but he just couldn't. He instructed me to return to the main office and re-apply and for sure I would receive another assignment somewhere else in the city of Houston. I went there and spoke with a very arrogant and incompetant Field Manager named Daniel, instead of him helping me he treated me as if I did something terribly wrong. He spoke to me like a child, mind you I am 57 years old. As a result I found other employment not related to security with better pay and much better management. I believe that this lady (let's call her Nancy) at the loading dock had something to do with it all, although I never did anything to her I believe she gets her kicks at bringing people down, she is a big hypocrite because tells people that she is Christian but plays the lottery every morning and curses like a sailor all day long. She is a very illiterate individual and it makes her feel important to try and ruin somebody just for the hell of it. Anyone thinking about a security job especially in Houston, do not apply at Securitas Security Services. There are some very reputable security companies like Allied-Barton or Pinnacle Security; stay away from Securitas at all cost eventhough they are well-known, they are the cheapest most low-class employer in town, and it is hard to understand how they stay in business. I guess they continue to hire anyone hard-up for a job and in this time of recession they have a lot of candidates.
All I'm seeing here are negative comments but nobody seems to want to say what they liked. I have worked for Securitas for just under two years and I enjoy my job. I may only make $8/hr but the reality is I drive less than two miles to my site. My job is easy, I 'm not lazy but I like a laid back work environment. Our seven man team includes some great people, but there is one that nobody likes, you have that pretty much anywhere. When I started with Securitas I was at the bottom of the ladder but in about year I became second in command at my 30 acre site. It doesn't seem like something to be proud of but I am. I honestly believe Securitas is a pretty decent company, you just have to be in the right place. We have good management and plenty of sites to work at. One thing to remember is this is a security company not a police agency we don't get 'hard-core' training or assignments. If you and others had problems which didn't get resolved, you didn't go far enough to get them resolved.
DrakeKing, if you are happy making $8.00 per hour then Securitas is definitely the place for you. Good luck!
Securitas is one of those sleazy companies that is too large to bring down all at once. But I predict that pretty soon they will be brought down. If big banks and big insurance can be brought to the chopping surely a low-class sleazy company such as Securitas can be brought down. If you are ever in the city of Houston, Texas and looking for quick employment please, please, please by-pass Securitas. They actually get a kick out of mistreating their employees, beware of the warning signs a company whose hiring process in unnecessarily complicated is an employer for whom working will be unnecessarily complicated. Endless rounds of interviewing are a good indicator of a boss who's afraid to take responsibility for their own decision. Look at Securitas' so-called orientation and training, it cheapest training [if you can call it that] in the industry. Their website limits their story. Why? Because they are not proud of it, all those who defend this company are nothing less than idiots because Securitas is the ### of the earth when it comes to employment. Someone mentioned laziness, well laziness is what this company projects and what you project is what you will get.
I've only worked for this company for a little over a month. So far they have let go two guards and we've lost three. Because of there ridiculous hiring procedure we have not and probably will not have replacements anything soon. They want the interviewee to drive 100+ miles to interview paying a bridge tole too, not knowing if they will even get a job that pays $8/hr. This situation is leaving the guards that are left to work 12 to 16 hours shift to make up for the missing guards. On top of that every single guards first paycheck from the company was mess up. Lets just say I'm looking for new employment.
Sounds like a lot of turned over employees with issues. I have been with the company for less than a decade, and believe me, I have seen my share of problems. I suggest you document and stand up for yourself. I got a great piece of advice once, an older man who worked at my site told me to keep EVERY piece of paper I got, take it home and file it. I have done that. It helped me out of a lot of sticky situations. I have had my name dragged through the mud. I have been on the verge of my reputation being forever destroyed over lies and gossip. I have held my calm and continue to document and have a close working relationship with the office staff. I think a lot of the issues here are from employees that didn't seek out a higher answer. There is always Branch Managers, HR, Area and Regional Managers, there is also the Alert Line. Many avenues that can be traveled to get your situation resolved. Don't be bullied at your site, and don't be bullied at the office. Good luck to you all.
THE ONLY THING THESE OUT-SOURCED WONDER AGENCIES ARE CAPABLE OF SHOOTING---IS SHOOTING OFF LIES OUT OF THEIR STUPIS MOUTHS!
a legend in their own minds...
I'll make my comments short and to the point. I am currently working with Securitas for just a tad under 6 months now. I feel unappreciated, it's a dead end job, the benefits; "better yet, WHAT BENEFITS!", NO job recognition, etc. etc. At Securitas this is just a temporary means of making ends meet. It's a shame!
i started working for securitas in virginia in may 2010, i paid 75 for dcjs security license, which i did. i also i have have to have my finger print taken. mr bill murray is the person who supposed to take my finger print, instead of him taking everyone's finger print he let one security guard who was going throu her re-certification classes do our finger print.sure enough that came back, they re-do my finger print but this time it came back because dcjc needs another $75, i told the managment there my story, they said they understand thats not my fault but if i need to get my license i need to pay another $75.
thats not the only problem for the past 2 months i've been workng with this company as a floater so i was doing all kinda hours.when i calculated my hours i had 136 hrs in 2 weeks.which i only received 83hrs of it.i talked to my scheduler andre dickerson who told me some of the hrs goes to different pay period.i said fine can u calculate all the hours i should be paid for without telling him how many hours i was paid for.after he calculated it came up to 104 hrs.so i showed him how much i got paid.he looked and said i dnt knw how or where did the rest of the u'r hrs went..mind u thats my scheduler.so i won't let it go at that..i called the hotline and made case we will see where these scums will take me. 07-28-2010
pssssst( REPLY TO SYJEEBLE) The company is so dysfunctional nationwide that it is a turkey-shoot guess whether the uneducated fools they hire to do payroll are just unskilled and uneducated, or whether they are still dishonest and trying to cheat the guards! Needless to say, in a variety of situations with that company, you will be disappointed in many situations that arise. Keep a spare job on the back burner-'cause they hire-and-fire like porn stars shooting sex sequences-and tell you nothing! I know-spent years inside that little nest of iniquity-and it isn't any better since "THE EURO-TRASH" took over the dishonest and incompetent operation-they just figured out how to screw more money ( LIKE YOU REALLY BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T GET YOUR INITIAL 75.00 DOLLARS, AND THEN SCREWED YOU TWICE?!) out of the working poor-because they are easy prey! The music theme of the guards working for this company is "THE CHICKEN DANCE"!
YOU SEE, SYJEEBLE-I WILL BE DOWN-AND-SWEATY HONEST WITH THOSE TRYING TO WORK IN SECURITY-I LIVED IT, I DID A GOOD JOB-AND THE POWERS-THAT-BE FEARED ME AND BANNED ME. NO PROBLEM-THEY---A-R-E THE PROBLEM. THEY CANNOT COME AFTER ME, NOR REFUTE THE ATTACKS-BECAUSE I KNOW THEIR WIMPY CAPABILITIES INSIDE-AND-OUT! ( BESIDES, GUY- WE HAVE PROTECTION-AND I DON'T MEAN THE LAW!) YOU ARE NEW-YOU TRY TO PLEASE WITHOUT QUESTION---STONE-COLD WRONG! YOU WILL GET HURT IF YOU TRUST THOSE FOLKS-BE IT G4S WACKENUT, ALLIED/BARTON, OR SECURITAS. IF THEY WANTED TO TRAIN YOU PROPERLY, THEY WOULD GIVE YOU WONDERFUL TRAINING IN CERT/DISASTER PREPAREDNESS, WEATHER SPOTTER TRAINING, EXTENSIVE FIREARMS AND OBSERVATION TRAINING, REPORT WRITING, AND CPR TRAINING-ALL DELICIOUSLY VALUABLE TO YOUR RESUME, AND TO THEIR BEING ABLE TO CHARGE THE CLIENT HIGHER PREMIUMS FOR BETTER INSTRUCTED OFFICERS. AT THEIR COST. THEY DON'T! THAT IS THE MOST TELLING-AND SO YOU GOTTA FIGURE-THEY PRIME YOU FOR FAILURE, AND GIVE YOU A LITTLE " BOOT-SHOVE " TO ASSURE YOU FAIL-EVEN IF THERE IS LITTLE, OR NO REASON AT ALL! IF QUESTIONS ARISE-SHOUT OUT ON THIS USELESS BLOG-IT CAN BE USED TO COMMUNICATE REAL TRUTH ABOUT A SHADOWY-LYING-SACK-OF-CRAP INDUSTRY BEFORE WE RUIN THE MINDS AND ATTITUDES OF MORE GOOD AMERICAN WORKERS WHO ASPIRE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN LIFE!
IT EVEN FRIGHTENS ME HOW DAMNED ACCURATE MY ASSESSMENT OF THE FAILING ECONOMY AND THE ATTENDING VIOLENCE THAT ENSUES HAS MANIFEST ITSELF IN CITIES-SUCH AS MIAMI. ARMED GUARDS ARE GETTING WHACKED, BUSINESS OWNERS ARE GETTING PILFERED AND SHOT-AND STILL THE SECURITY JOBS ARE NOT ON THE DEMAND AND UPTAKE. THE CLIENTS ARE STUBBORN, AND CHEAP-BUT BUYING SECURITY IS A BETTER CHOICE TO PART WITH A LITTLE FINANCIAL COST THEN BE DEAD. THEY WILL BE DEAD-IF THE TREND KEEPS GOING AS MY COMPUTER AFFIRMS IT WILL. POLICE SITTING ON THE INNER CITY HOUSING AND IMPACT AREAS ISN'T GONNA SOLVE CRIME DOWN IN THE SOUTH END, AND AGENCIES ARE NOT GONNA PAY GUARDS WHAT THE RISK IS WORTH, OR ARM THEM TO THE TEETH. LIKE MR. T ONCE SAID-----"I PREDICT PAIN--" I SERIOUSLY BELIEVE THERE WILL BE NO MEANINGFUL ECONOMY RECOVERY FAST ENOUGH TO SAVE AMERICA---AND I AM SAD TO SAY-I AM SELDOM WRONG WHEN I COME OUT OF THE PREDICTION CLOSET. ONE THING I AM SURE OF-GUNS AND AMMO WILL BE REGULATED TIGHTLY, AND WHEN THINGS GET RAW-I WILL BE WORKING FOR BIG MONEY. IT IS A WAITING GAME-I AM PATIENT. I DID MY HOMEWORK, I PREDICTED THE WORLDWIDE CORPORATIONS DON'T REACT UNTIL THEY HAVE SERIOUS SECURITY BREECHES-AND HAVING OUR ENFORCEMENT ALL TIED UP IN WARS OF COMMERCIAL ADVENTURE EVERYWHERE BUT THE STREETS-LEAVES THE STREETS WIDE OPEN TO MAYHEM. THAT IS LOGIC-BUT IT IS DANGEROUS AND THE NEED FOR PROTECTION---WILL COME.UNFORTUNATELY, LITTLE OLD MEN THAT THESE AGENCIES CLING ON TO, ARE NOT GONNA FILL THE BILL. BY DECEMBER, THE GARBAGE IN THE STREETS OF MIAMI IS REALLY GOING TO STINK-HOPE THEY FIND ENOUGH TAX MONEY TO PAY THE WASTE DISPOSAL TECHNICIANS-OR YOUR BED-MATES MIGHT BE RATS-HAHAHAHAHAH(LOL) (I LOVE TO SPELL OUT MY SEDITION AND MOCKERY IN FINE, BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS!)
Yes I am a ex - securitas employee who was fired after reporting the LGE can run power plant post supervisor for criminal activities, time sheet altering and sexual harrasment .And least of all He was caught many times sleeping . . TWILL15341@aol.com
I have addressed many issues pertaining to the downsizing of guard working conditions, pay, and administration thereof, in the past. My viewpoints remain set, known, and non-capitulated in substance. Let me address other parallel issues-and focus in on why certain policies now in effect, put weight on street security issues. First-Americas' unending entanglement with foreign wars of commercial misadventure; in a word-it is costly beyond money and lives-and leaves no sustainable benefit to anyone long-term. Our fledgling democratic fiefdoms halfway around the globe cannot be manipulated by mega-corporations, and neither can their labor be subjugated----so where is the delusion of benefit? We are the intruders way outside our territory, and most certainly, once our influence is removed, so will our welcome be removed. To remain in a region hostile to our culture-is to invite further reprisals---on our weakened and insecure streets. A reason why our streets are more insecure-is that poverty is eating the middle-class alive-and life cannot go on in such a reduced manner without social chaos. iN LIGHT OF THIS THREAT OF DISORDER, THE CITIES TRY TO PAY CONTRACTS LESS AND LESS IN GUARD SECURITY-AND NOW THEY WANT POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS, HERE IN MIAMI, TO TAKE MORE RISKS IN HARD TIMES---AND TAKE PAY CUTS! Friends-wars and services cuts are not an optional direction if a modern city wishes to avois social anarchy and revolution.It is easy for the President Of The United States (Obama) to speak of soldier's honor and service----skirting the issues that it is not effective, nor enduring, to be engaged in that economic-driven conundrum-----at all! Speeches are not constructive policies that result in jobs, nor is real security obtained by an army sequestered and mired halfway around the world! An event of great disaster here, within our country, would-in all probability--lack due swiftness of response in materials, manpower, and communication. Real security and resource concerns for the 21st century to ponder!
(addressing twill15341)Yes, good friend-I fully appreciate your situation-as I have said in the past" I DO HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT"! Guard supervisors that are corrupt are everywhere in the industry. I dealt with one post administrator who, after being fired for unauthorized telephone charges, misuse of agency gas-charge card, blackmail files being kept on guards, forgery on time sheets, and overt harassment-----and was fired and reapplied under a different agency who took over the same post (ALL GOVERNMENT, I.C.E., HOMELAND SECURITY, FBI SOUTHCOM MILITARY)and the client(WHAT THE HELL I-S WRONG WITH THESE [censor]-HEADS?!)welcomes this big, fat, criminal back with open arms! AT THAT POINT IN MY CAREER-I KNEW THE AGENCIES, AS WELL AS THE CLIENTS, ARE THE MAJORITY OF THE SECURITY PROBLEM BREECH HERE IN THE UNITED STATES-NOT THE LAZINESS OF THE GUARDS! Until this complex of problems is cleaned up-the industry will be a nightmare to work in-and guards will not be paid a livable wage-and risks to guards' safety and health will be ignored. Think-that is why industries form unions-to discuss and take action on these abuses! (MADRINZING)
i am not writing a book, i am not seeking a following of malcontents like the shill, glen beck, and i have yet to see anyone who wishes to stand toe-to-toe and debate the issues-----the opposition is "hit-and-run".MY PURPOSE---IS TO REFORM A VERY NASTY INDUSTRY BEFORE 9-11 PART II EXPOSES THE WEAKNESSES AND FOOLISHNESS I HAVE DETERMINED, THAT LEAVES OUR NATION VULNERABLE;; IT IS CORRUPTION AND NEGLECT.
I'm thinking of taking a job with 50 State Security as a PPO Metro Rail Guard. Does anyone have any advice? They are suppose to start at $15 an hour. I'm very much qualified. Former Corrections Officer, 7 years in the Military Combat Arms, Prior Security Management and Officer.
IN SHORT ANSWER TO THE ABOVE-"IF YOU GET A PROSPECT ENTICEMENT FLIER THAT SAYS YOUR SALARY RANGES BETWEEN A-Z, YOU WILL GET A-OR-LESS, TO BE FRANK!" THEY KEEP ADVERTISING FOR 200 MORE ELITE GUARDS-WHEN THE HELL ARE THEY GONNA HAVE ENOUGH GUARDS TO FILL THOSE LIMITED POSTS-PERMANENTLY?! PSSSSST-IT HAS TO BE A BOTTOMLESS RECRUITING SCAM! IT IS! PLUS-THEY ARE GOING TO GET THEMSELVES IN MAJOR TROUBLE LIKE WACHENHUT DID-BECAUSE THESE DESPERATE SOULS ARE EVEN MORE BROKE AND CORRUPT-AND THE GOOD GUARD MANPOWER JUST ISN'T THERE ANYMORE-DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION-NOW GO OUT AND GET A REAL JOB! dismissed.
Securitas discriminates against you if you don't work the post they want you to work. Securitas is the [censor]ing bad place to work. Management stick up for eachother. I don't recommend this [censor]ing company to anyone. All the management are crooks. All of terrible [censor] going on in this securitas. They cheat their employees out of their hour. Very dishonest management. All management and H.R, should be fired and replace with honest employees.
BAD COMMENTS ARE IN MULTITUDE BECAUSE------THEY ARE A SIMPLY AWFUL COMPANY, PROVIDING AN AWFUL SERVICE, AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE----GET IT?!
LORENE-(a reply), When I was supervising and dispatching for WELLS FARGO, PINKERTON, BURNS (all little companies gobbled up by SECURITAS )-my concern was people like you-and getting your hours straight, keeping [censored]head fellow guards and managers off your case-and getting you paid accurately and on time! That was a real fight-because-as you saw well-THEY DON'T CARE EXCEPT FOR THEMSELVES-AND, OF COURSE-NOBODY IN THEIR OFFICE EVER MAKES AN ERROR! THEY WERE-AND REMAIN-DOODY-HEADS AND MUST BE FIRED EN-MASS!
All of this agency's hiring and contracts-as well as those across The United States for all security guard agencies-aren't going to make an iota of difference between the end of the year and next summer. As available resources and services dwindle, the lower tiers of the socioeconomic ladder will resort to scavenging and crime will soar. Those shiny faces on the ADVENTURES IN EXCELLENCE PROPAGANDA won't do a thing defending the posts, streets, or neighborhood! The entire wealth of a nation has been suppressed, devalued-and paid out to either CHINA, OR THE GROUP WE HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND AS WANTING TO DESTROY ALL LABOR WORTH-"THE ILLUMINATI". The fundamental economy is in shambles-it will not recover for years and years. That is a long time to go without a hamburger, friends! Folks who worked hard all of their lives, some for this very company, have been sapped of all their money reserves and tossed under the bus. This is no way to treat Americans, and some of these folks are holding massive firepower-beyond law enforcement and security. There may come a time, very soon, that the debts get canceled all around the table-the government is working way to slow-and ( THIS IS A SCENARIO ON THIS COMPUTER-SO DON'T WHACK ME!)soon costs will overrun all assets for most AMERICANS. At that point, you get unrepairable civil war and lawless rebellion. What is n-o-t tolerable is outside forces providing intervention in AMERICA'S PROBLEMS-NEVER BELIEVE ANYONE HAS A SIMPLE SOLUTION. The city and lifestyles will never be the same again-but there will be reorganization. The race to higher and higher computer technology will also fall away because---no manufacturing=no jobs=no money to buy your laptop wonders! A whole generation is gonna be looking at blank screens connecting to-nothing at all! Keep watching the stock market soar and gold also-if you have any, it is marginal and inconsequential. The folks who have the armaments would be wise not to align themselves with anyone-for any reason! YOU SEE-THERE IS ALWAYS A HITLER IN THE WINGS-PROMISING GRANDIOSE SOLUTIONS (and we all know what they amounted to---trouble!)! I have a r-e-a-l problem with out-sourced agencies that are foreign owned controlling my nation's manpower security! I do not know if you have thought about it much, but now that our country is hungry and vulnerable-it is not the hour to be organized from some group who takes it;s marching orders from a foreign shore. WHEN THEY START TO BAN SENIOR GUARDS FOR RELATIVELY SMALL INFRACTIONS, OR CIRCUMSTANCES NOT FULLY VETTED-I BEGIN TO SEE PARALLELS OF THE EXCLUSIONARY TACTICS USED BY THE NAZI FASCIST STATE IN GERMANY IN IT'S RISE TO ABSOLUTE TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP. IF THEY CONTROL THE ABILITY TO MAKE MONEY, THEY CONTROL EVERYTHING. I'LL BET THIS MIND-FRAME IS N-O-T DISCUSSED IN YOUR LITTLE SECURITAS SLICK MAGAZINE----EHHH? THINK ABOUT WHERE YOUR COUNTRY IS HEADED-DOWN A SCARY DARK TUNNEL! Of course-YOU SAY-"MY JOB IS SECURE-THEY WON'T TOSS M-E UNDER THE BUS-------REALLY-YOU BELIEVE THAT?! EVERYONE IS ONE POST REMOVAL AWAY FROM POVERTY-AND THE HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT HAS THE PHONE MAILBOX CRAMMED SO YOU WILL NEVER GET THROUGH TO THEM. "HE WHO CONTRILS THE MONEY-CONTROLS THE MINDS OF ALL WORKERS". THEY WANT YOU NOT TO QUESTION-AND IF YOU DON'T-YOU ARE-INDEED-DEAD.
IT IS BEYOND "an Obama problem-beyond a conservative vs liberal problem; THE FUNDAMENTAL PRECEPTS OF ECONOMICS SET UP IN THE COUNTRY WERE A PYRAMID SCHEME-AND IT WORKED WELL WHEN THERE WAS SOMETHING TO BACK IT UP-THE POPULATION BELIEVED THEIR ENDLESS LABOR WAS WORTH ITEMS THAT WE MANUFACTURED-THAT MADE JOBS. WHEN YOU NO LONGER MAKE INCENTIVES, AND YOU CANNOT GET MONEY TO BUY THE PRODUCTS-IT ALL COMES TO A SCREAMING HALT! THE AVERAGE PERSON WITH A MORTGAGE THAT IS BEYOND ALL MEANS OF RECONCILIATION, AND A CREDIT FLOAT ON THE PLASTIC CARD THAT IS AN ANCHOR OF DEBT-IS AN ECONOMIC DEAD ENTITY, AMERICANS ARE EITHER IN DEBT, OUT OF WORK, OR ARE GOING TO WAKE UP IN A LIFESTYLE LIKE "DOROTHY IN THE LAND OF OZ"! THAT LITTLE SECURITAS JOB WILL FLY BY LIKE THE MEN IN THE ROW BOAT IN THE TORNADO, AND I WISH I COULD LIE AS FLAWLESSLY AS THESE SECURITY AGENCIES AND WALL STREET ECONOMISTS-I CAN'T! YOU ARE ALL KNEE-DEEP IN DECEPTION AND FOLKS ALL GRABBING THEIR SHARE AT YOUR EXPENSE-BUT YOU HAVE SUSPECTED THAT FOR A LONG TIME---JUST CAN'T DO MUCH ABOUT IT!
A REMINDER-I WENT TO ONE OF THE BEST UNIVERSITY'S IN THE UNITED STATES-NOT TO VOMIT THE BOOK-LEARNED PROPAGANDA-BUT TO INQUIRE "WHAT IS REALITY-AND WHAT DOES MANKIND NEED TO LIVE WITH THAT REALITY". THE DEGREE OF CORRUPTION I SEE ALL ABOUT IS A STARK CHALLENGE TO THE VERY SURVIVAL OF MANKIND-IT CAN GOBBLE UP ALL NOTIONS OF REALITY. SOME SAY MY REASONING AND PONDERING S IN PUBLIC GO WAY BEYOND THE PALE OF CORPORATE TOLERATION.! I DISAGREE-IT IS FAR TO LITTLE-AND THOSE WHO PROVOKE-IN EVERY GENERATION-DO SO OUT OF SUPREME CONCERN FOR THE FUTURE OF MANKIND. I DON;T SEEK A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE-RATHER, A NOBEL PIECE OF A CAUSE. IF I MAKE YOU THINK-IT HAS DONE THE JOB. IF I MAKE YOU ANGRY-I HAVE DONE THE JOB. IF I MAKE YOU TAKE ACTION AND CHANGED YOUR OWN FUTURE-THAT IS THE NOBLEST OF CAUSES.SOCIETY NEEDS TO BE PROVOKED WITH A GOOD SWIFT-KICK AGAINST THE STATUS-QUO-' FOR THE CORRUPTION IS DECAY UNCHECKED.
I say these things, not primarily to arouse the ignorant-but if certain REPUBLICANS and RUSH LIMBAUGH FOLLOWERS get their feathers ruffled-that is just another chuckle to laugh about as we take on the real issues-unabashedly slaying dragons with "THE SWORD OF TRUTH"! RUSH LIMBAUGH claims to have excellence in broadcasting-i dunno if you'd trust a man who sends his maid to the DENNY'S PARKING LOT to buy non-prescription drugs-hmmmmm-seems to be a credibility gap there somewhere?! Like the REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO SUPPORT FLORIDA'S "RIGHT TO WORK" LAWS-that keep guards intimidated in their jobs, and broke because nobody is there to back their needs or wage increase requests. The next time you listen to RUSH LIMBAUGH-THINK ABOUT HIM AND HIS VALUES-AND KNOW HE EATS STEAK WHILE YOU EAT [censor] FROM THE CLIENT AND YOUR GUARD OFFICE! YOU SEE-IT IS A CONSPIRACY OF THE ARROGANT RICH KEEPING THE POOR DOWN!
DO NOT WORK FOR SECURITAS! This is amazing. The biggest mistake I have ever made in all of my now 16 years of employment was being hired at Securitas. There isn't much I can add on to this review that hasn't already been said. So the following will read more as a public service announcement than a coherent review. I knew Securitas was up to no good my very first day on the job when I found out starting pay in training is minimum wage. This is one of many things that are never disclosed to you either during the interview or orientation. When I came aboard I was offered a Supervisor position (my very first!) at $13 per hour training and after a month up to $16 per hour at the Renton landing area. So I placed in my 2 week notice and quit the security job where I was before (and should never have left!).
So along comes my first week it's Monday 3/8 and I am sitting around waiting for a call from the Manager Israel on my official schedule, and it's like playing musical chairs trying to get a hold of him. After playing tag several times over I finally make contact. Next week I start my first day at Renton meeting Farhan with payroll. Suddenly I'm thinking "Great, I'm finally in luck making more money as sup." NOT! This is when he drops the minimum wage bombshell, which again was NEVER disclosed either during the interview or during orientation. First of all Security is one of the dead-pan simplest occupations you will ever find. So who in their right mind with rent, credit cards, and a disabled significant other take care of, and over 2 years of experience needs to be subjected to 2 days worth of minimum wage training? Training is up, and now I'm already fighting tooth and nail getting a bunch of guards to cooperatively swap posts every hour. Isn't this something they should be doing THEMSELVES? It doesn't make me feel much a Sup when I have one guard who has major personal issues, likes to leave 10 minutes early, and due to traffic problems does not have her Drive For Life card - which means I can't have her ride the cart. This is going to mess up the rotation a bit, and mean I have to cover post more often than not. Meanwhile my phone is CONSTANTLY ringing off the hook whether it's Israel [censor]ing about guards signing for packages, Farhan riding my tail about working my days off because people can't be reliable, or the fussy idiot client wanting everything done to her fussy specifications. All the while I'm thinking this is more trouble than worth, but it is a Sup position and will make me look good on resume. Not true. After only a week I get a call from the office to blow an unnecessary 40 miles of gasoline through the Bellevue commute. Word from Israel - good news, we're moving you to the Qwest Center.
What? No longer a Sup? Nope, if you read over the handbook in debt this company carefully crosses every T and dots every I so much that confronting them is like pushing a noodle. OK, so now I'm a Level 2 Officer at the Qwest Center. Monitoring post, patrolling building, counting badges, signing people in and out. Sounds easy? Not so. Again it's clients wanting details done to their own fussy specifications. As a Level 2, if anything happens YOU are held accountable. A vendor badge is missing? It's your fault. The wrong escort initials them out? It's your fault. Heck, someone burns down the building on a day you're not even scheduled. It's your fault. Is it any wonder Management now under the guise of a new HR person who is as incompetent as they come can't figure out how to properly train guards. It's not just me doing my stuff either. I had a day where another guard mistakenly lost a client badge on a day I wasn't posted, and I took the blame anyway.
Strike 3! Now I'm at the Renton Wallmart doing circles around the lot. If this isn't bad enough. My hours are cut down to 37 and 1/2 a week, as is my pay around $11.50 per hour when it was $14 previously. So I'm thinking I'll ride out the storm until I get something better. Right? WRONG! The company truck was CONSTANTLY having problems starting up. I remember a scuffle I had with Farhan about the car trouble when his standard answer is "I'll be in over the weekend to have the problem looked into.", sure he will...as in once the car goes out completely! I'm also told I need to buy a $77 battery to be placed in the car and the company will reimburse me. NOT EVEN!
There you have it. I come aboard offered a long-term Supervisor position, and I'm being treated like a low-rent white-collar drone. Those of you who like me have been in the Security industry long enough as I have should have discovered by now it's a common mishap every company has their ups and downs. Securitas has proven itself to be a loser right from the start. As of this publication they are easily rated the WORST security provider in the USA, and unfortunately other companies I've looked into aren't faring much better. I'm with Alert Security now, and despite promises getting hours from them is like pulling teeth. I hope the upper management at Securitas is reading these reviews closely. Best case scenario this will serve as an open invitation to ask themselves. Why is it they can't address problems until they become a problem? Better communication between clients. Knowing more of what the other department is doing. Or perhaps just learning to make good on their promises. Come to your own conclusion. I think the only reason I was hired in the first place is because I was hired by the previous HR recruiter and not the same they have now. It's just another company that treats their peons like so many numbers, and somehow grew up without adequate thyroid hormone replacement.
Anyone who applies for a job with Securitas is making a horrible mistake! NORTHWEST SECURITY, Here I Come!
(OMAR BRADLEY SPEAKING TO GEORGE PATTON);" GEORGE, I DO THIS JOB BECAUSE IT IS MY PAID DUTY-YOU DO IT IT BECAUSE, SO HELP ME GOD, YOU L-O-V-E IT...!"
{CAESARE 20/20} (THE REPLY) IT PAINS ME-AND I MEAN IT IN ALL SINCERITY-TO SEE THE GUARDS REALIZE THE BROKEN PROMISES THAT THESE OUTSOURCING SECURITY FOOLS MAKE AND BREAK! THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THUS EVIL ON THE CHEAP FOR A LONG TIME-AND BECAUSE OF THIS, THEY CHANGE COMPANY IDENTIFICATION AND STORE FRONT OFFICE VENUES ABOUT AS OFTEN AS A PORN STAR CHANGES POSITIONS! I OFTEN CHUCKLE WHEN THE SAME CONTRACTS MOVE WITH THEM---PROBABLY SO SOME CLIENT OR OUTRAGED GUARD DOESN'T FIND THEM AND STORM IN GOING POSTAL WITH AN AK-47! You keenly observed the fact that if they wanted a real supervisor, they;s invest a little money in special skills training ( AT THEIR EXPENSE, PLEASE!) AND GIVE YOU A BIT HIGHER WAGE CONSIDERATION. If you serve on post-then they start dicking around with your pay. Next the "INNER- SANCTUM QUEENS OF THE OFFICE" start stuffing your file with queer-bait complaint material that is "ANONYMOUS"! Then comes the little explained, but quick "REMOVAL BY THE CLIENT'S REQUEST" and no equal pay or full hours post is available. It is formatted to a script-and it is really mean and sick. So-do you believe my thirty years experience is relevant, guy?TRUST ME WHEN I TELL YOU-THE SECURITAS FOREIGN OUTSOURCING WILL GRIND TO A HALT WHEN GUARDS READ ABOUT THESE ABUSES AND THE POOL OF HIRING MANPOWER DRIES UP DUE TO POVERTY WAGES KILLING OFF GUARDS. THEN SECURITAS CAN GET BACK IN IT'S LITTLE ROWBOAT AND PADDLE BACK TO EURO-HELL AND DROP THE UNITED STATES HOLDING LIKE A HOT POTATO! BYE-BYE-AND EURO, INDIA, AND CHINA NEED TO STAY THE HELL OUT OF OUR SECURITY BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES ALSO! WE HAVE PROBLEMS-WE DO NOT NEED THEIR SOLUTIONS-PERIOD! STAY THE HELL HOME! 'NUFF SAID!
I have been a securitas employee for just under one year. I will say my BM is a grerat guy he really is and if he were the only one in charge of me I think things would go much smoother. Also I like the fact that my shiny metal badge keeps the bums and crooks at bay while I ride the bus home.
On hte other hand I cannot afford to pay rent and support my end of things at home, while also paying health insurance. That would not be so serious of an issue if I didn't work at a HOSPITAL surrounded by disease and dealing with the drunks and the mentally unstable.
oh yeah one of them (HEP-C POS) spat in my face. LNI is referring it on to securitas to handle. great...
when I was first hired I was offered a job at a nameless construction site and the offered pay was 12.50 an hour. That sounded more than reasonable to me and I began looking for apartments or houses for rent in that area. I notified securitas of my intentions and of course they told me I would be working about 35 miles away at a different site. they DID NOT tell me that I would be earning 11.00 an hour instead. I stuck with it and looked for housing ( housing that I could afford at 12.50 not 11.00). so of course once I got all moved in and began working at the site I was a bit shocked and frustrated to find that I was only being paid 11.00 an hour.
The client (telecommunications company nameless) at that site offered no benefits or raises and since then has directly lied to securitas staff about pay raises in the works. essentially promising something they would never give.
Ok so at this point I'm screaming further and further into debt until lo and behold they offer me a position at a new site. "You cannot be afraid of blood or defending yourself" I was told. That sounded great to me and i figured it would also look good on a resume (I would like to get into VIP protection or dignitary protection). oh yeah and they told me i would get A RAISE TO 12.50
the raise sounded sweet! it was exactly what i thought I needed to work my way out of debt. Not the case.
Now I have to commute 1.5 -2.5 hours to work depending on the day. still no health insurance and the health-care facility I work for does not offer benefits to contracted employees. yet another situation where im protecting millions of dollars worth of equipment, dealing with cranky employees that make on average twice as much as I do, and with no support from the client or my employer. constantly reprimanded when I do something wrong and no recognition when I do something right or when I go above-and-beyond what they ask. I enjoy security and I enjoy helping people but Securitas is burning me out and I feel that had I not experienced the thigns they put mer through, I would not be as socially mal-adjusted.
My lead officer who is 19 (im 24) has less total securitas/ site experience and cannot even spell the word Favorite (he spells it favoret)... and that young man is "responsible for my paperwork".
oh but of course my account manager still sends the demeaning and angry emails to me about when the paperwork is not correct or when somethign happens that he feels is not ok (whether he consistantly is in error himself or not).
all of my fellow guards complain about how the account manager runs things, how he does no work and puts it off on other people and then when we do something good he takes the credit. noone in securitas management seems to care and it really blows my mind that HR or my BM or really anyone, does not seem to give a f--- that all the bottom-end employees are mis-treated, mis-represented, and have to struggle to make it to work. on average I bike about 20 miles per trip for work. I usually only have to bike on sundays but am scheduled for the days before and after. working graveyard shift that puts me off at 8 AM and on at midnight. with a 2 hour trip each way that leaves me with 12 hours to "be myself" before I have to go to work.
also I just found out that all of the guards here will be receiving a .50 cent raise on January 1st. WOOHOO except we will no longer be receiving our 6 month 1.00 raise. all the other guards at this site have received that 1.00 raise and will still receive the .50 raise. I have not been at this site long enough for my 1.00 raise and it seems that now I will never receive it.
The tell me I'll be working in one spot and send me to another. They tell me I'll be earning X amount and give me Y only to move me back to X amount while paying everyone else Z amount. They offer benefits that noone can afford and do not take into consideration cost of living. I honestly feel they dont care whether I live or die or simply suffer. I understand that my FSM does not get paid that much and being a BM shoudl be earning more than the standard worker, but not even he really earns that much.
I hear that on average each client pays securitas around 50.00 per hour per guard on site. your wage (for me 12.50) is taken out of that 50.00 from the client. securitas takes the rest. WHERE THE F--- DOES THAT MONEY GO!?!
I have no option of joining a union, cannot afford health insurance and I work in a hospital, cannot afford to live near the site; (costing me more money and time to get to work and back), and feel discriminated against but for reasons unknown. work is hard to come by in this area so as much as i try applying for different jobs, not much is coming along. I feel like I could/ should sue them but dont even have the money for a lawyer (maybe thats why im paid 12.50 to put my life and well being on the line everyday, thanks for the 5K health insurance, just enough to be cremated... oh yeah dont forget the stress of seeing people die in front of you, watching families fall apart, transferring dead bodies from teh morgue which we have to inspect for valuables, being responsible for anywhere between 1 and 30 patients valuables on top of all the hospitals property [upwards of 50 million dollars worth of equipment and property] . and for all that stress, and working with only one other guard with inadequate self defense training [MOAB does not help when a patient is thratening to kill you with whatever sharp object and screraming racial epitaphs etc.] and handcuff training that the state / federal government does not even recognize and thus I would have no support in court. no capstun, no protection but a radio and the good faith that someone will show up if i yell into it with enough information for them to help.)
You have no idea how many tiems I've been on the bus home and seen a patient I had to restrain or outright fight days or sometimes hours before. That is not a comforting feeling especially when my one line of defense beyond assaulting the person, a radio, is not around or useful.
"You can't be afraid of blood or defending yourself" ...
No what I cant be afraid of is a company actively seeking a monopoly in security services while providing clients with under-educated inefficient guards that dont care about their jobs. I cannot be afraid of a complany that does nto care whether I live or die or in what condition I live / die in, and I cannot be afraid to deal with the two jobs with the highest suicide rates this year; Emergency Room / Hospital doctors and Security guards (and of course im a security guard in a hospital...)
but the company does not care, noone is coming to help, and I feel if i speak my mind they will bury me considering they are a corporation that is raping and pillaging the money market while underpaying their employees (probably so they cannot afford to sue).
F--- SECURITAS!
Let us play this game with your minds------1>2>3>4>5-NOW ALL THE VALUES YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ARE NULL AND VOID, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO GROUNDING BASE TO ANCHOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF VALUES-----YOUR MINDS ARE WASHED! CORRUPTION IS BASED ON MANIPULATING THOSE MIND VALUES-WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING OF RELATIVE VALUES-YOU HAVE NO WAY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO GO ONE WAY OR ANOTHER-THEY WILL STARE BLANKLY AT YOU---good luck-hope we made our point!