Verizon review: forcing internet service on media phones 95

...Really now we're considering this illegal, if it was illegal they wouldn't be doing it to begin with its common sense

Martmart...they wouldn't be doing it if it was illegal? Seriously? Oh and weren't they going to be refunding millions of $$ for bogus data charges? When our complaints are heard and the shady practices stopped, or at least slowed, you can keep on paying if you want to. Haven't you noticed you're alone in your opinion here?

I rather not jump on the tin foil hat band wagon and assume that Verizon is out to get me and they're lol as you put doing "illegal" activities. And of course im alone, you people come here to write pointless rants as you can see not many people care about ranting pointlessly, however i find it funny.

hahahaha tin foil hat band wagon...cute! Still...this article, while not entirely on point, shows their practices are, at best, questionable.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303362404575580501477873986.html
They say they didn't mean to...right. How do you accumulate millions of $$ of erroneous charges, unless you do it over and over and over again, regardless of any calls from customers? They knew full well what they were doing, just didn't figure they would be called on it. Fortunately, people do not just rant on these boards, but register their complaints where it counts: the Attorney General. He/she can decide if the complaints have merit. I would not be surprised if, somewhere down the line, it is determined that it is unfair business practice to require a data plan to purchase a high-end phone. Kind of like requiring people to make a purchase in order to enter a contest or sweepstakes. Whatever, Mart...just keep on defending them. THAT I find funny!

So now we believe everything we read on the internet, well damn i guess we're pretty much [censor]ed cause there's some crazy [censor] on the internet, but hey if its on the net and oh and if wall street journal says so it must be true right...right guys?

Please give me a break you're just riding the hate on Verizon wave and take anything that puts Verizon in a bad light no matter how credible or not credible it is. And yeah i know people go running to the Attorney General its just like when you're a child if you don't get your way you run crying to mommy and daddy or in this case the Attorney General and [censor] and moan till you stop crying. Im sorry i wasn't raised as a selfish brat if someone says no to me no means no and unlike you i don't have that as you say "cute" tin foil hat on my head. And as for defending them i have no reason not to, unlike you i don't piss and moan and cry till someone gives me attention when Verizon does something i don't like and unlike you i don't have this big conspiracy theory for Verizon. Hell why do you even have a phone...you do realize the Government can track you right...oh you didn't well guess you have something else to freak out about now.

Let the law decide, Mart..the Attorney General isn't going to do anything about it if it's LEGAL under the law. You're just taking a position.

And that makes the position you're taking any different then mine, no it doesn't.

My position is very much different than yours, and in agreement with the initial complaint on this board. Saying that people are whiners and babies because they lobby to change rules that they feel are inherently wrong is your position. Calling people names is childish.

What makes their opinion all high and mighty that it should be changed, why because you don't like something should it be changed, things are the way they're for a reason if it was supposed to be the other way around it would be. Calling people names may be childish, but so is complaining about not getting what you want.

hahaha..things are the way they are for a reason? We are not talking about the laws of nature but the greed of a corporation to make a buck no matter whether ethical or not. If a rule or policy is bad by definition of law or a majority opinion of the public, it should be changed...since the laws and policies were created by man in the first place (if you are religious, based on God's law). Company policies must adhere to the laws put in place by us. We are standing up and saying that we do not believe they are doing so. If the officials (also put in place by us) determine they are within the law. So be it. If not, then they must follow the rules, just as you say. At that point we make a decision to buy or not to buy and spread the word. Since corporation are always coming up with new and exciting ways to shaft the public (can you say Enron?), they must be watched and reported on and, if necessary, new laws put in place to keep their greed in check. It has nothing to do with my opinion being "high and mighty."

Good thing we don't base the opinions of those who don't get their way and rant about it on a message board that easily doesn't represent the majority, but a very very small minority. So tell me if these in the minority are right, then why does Verizon have nearly 100 million customers and growing everyday, if this were such a bad company as you seem to put it they wouldn't be in business right i mean what customer wants to do business with a company of as you put "greed" and one who isn't "ethical". I think someone has the words minority and majority confused with each other. BTW i can't wait to see what new and exciting way Verizon has to shaft me...if you by shaft you mean satisfy me as a customer of course.

Mart: As I stated before...based on your position that things are the way they are for a reason, our founding fathers would be whiners because they didn't like the way the Crown was treating them, there would still be a wall dividing Berlin, the Soviet Union would still exist, the air and water would be ruined by now (and if we don't change greenhouse gas emissions, our world is going to be irreparable damaged, but then you think that's the way it should be, just because it is), we would still be living in caves, various species would have disappeared from the face of the earth, the Wall Street crooks that have been brought to justice would still be doing their evil deeds, we would still have slaves, people would lose their jobs just because they got sick and had to take a day off (because that is the way it used to be), companies would still be allowed to use "bait and switch" tactics, people would not have 3 days to change their minds about door-to-door high-pressure sales...I could go on and on and on.

I said this before...there are companies out there listening to the complaints that Verizon customers have. We will just have to see how it all plays out.

You may truly believe that Verizon is doing just fine by its customers, and that's fine. You are entitled to that opinion and it is good for you that you are satisfied. But your ultimate argument that things are the way they are for a reason and calling people childish and whiners because they lobby for change just doesn't cut it and is ridiculous on its own merit. I think you know that. And THAT is why I say you are simply taking a position.

In any event, this is going around and around. I've made my arguments and you have made yours. Have a happy Thanksgiving eating that turkey and produce that are now probably safe to eat due to changes in standards put in place by whiners such as myself.

lol yes cause all those scenarios are exactly the same as a few people thinking Verizons out to scam them, problem is they have nothing factual to back their talk up with. Maybe some healthy turkey will clear that fog from you brain.

BTW do you remember what originally started this debate it was the stupid fact that you and some others feel that you're being "forced" internet on your phone, which as we know by now isn't true and they offer many other phones without the internet, but back on point we went from you complaining about being "forced" internet on phones to now comparing that argument to slavery. How the hell can you take my statement and then compare the original argument to such events like slavery. Its a damn stupid phone you want more on it you pay more this is completely irrelevant when compared to slavery and as for the founding fathers they had more important crap to deal with, this however isn't even an issue, stop being so damn ignorant and comparing them.

Mart: I knew you simply couldn't refrain from name calling. LOL

Mart: Yes, I remember very well what started this debate. It was the fact (not stupid fact) that we feel we're being forced to purchase a data plan in order to get a decent calendar on our phone, among other things. You came back with the argument that things are the way they are for a reason and we should just shut up about it and deal with it. I disagreed with that and explained why. Simple as that. I'm sorry if that offends you. If you don't want to hear people "whine, " then don't come on this board. But if people do not feel that a company is doing right by its customers, it's their prerogative and right to try and change it. We're not going away just because you feel the need to defend Verizon.

And i explained if you want those get a smart phone and pay the internet, you have many options like anything in life if you want more you pay more. As for you having the right to change it problem with that is what you want makes no sense at all. Think about it, its like this for everything in life want to buy a car sure you can want more in it you can have all the gadgets you want, but it will cost more, same with a house, entertainment center, computer etc etc. You want access to certain things on the phone Verizon gives you the ability to have them, but you have to pay. Its a two way street not one way like you want it to be.

You don't seem to get it. If I want all the fancy gadgets on the car, sure...I'll pay for it. If I want all the fancy gadgets on the phone, I'll pay for the GADGETS. I don't mind paying more for the PHONE...I've said so. Sheesh! I just don't want the DATA PLAN...I'm already paying more for the PHONE ITSELF. If I want the data plan, I'll pay for that too. But I DON'T want it. Just the fancy gadgets on the phone...better calendar, etc., and I'm willing to pay for THOSE. And while I'm on a roll...what about Verizon slamming me with $4 data access charges now and again, when a button is erroneously pushed and then immediately canceled? Multiply that by a couple of million customers and they really have a racket going!

And may I add that just because Onstar is available on cars doesn't mean the GM requires you to have and pay for the service just to get the car!

But here's where your argument is lost, you want these gadgets, but then you go on to say you don't want to pay for Data, well you can't have it that way the phones that offer those services are Data phones that NEED the data to fully operate. Like i said before i wanted those fancy gadgets so i bought a Droid X, i fully knew i needed the data plan, but hey i also know if i want the gadgets i need a data phone that requires DATA. And there's a simple solution to the 4 dollar access charge, have Data blocked or remove the shortcut.

That's where your argument fails...those phones DO NOT require data plans to function properly. I know for a fact that a couple of models of phones sold by Verizon did not always require a data plan and the slick features worked just fine. Then the phones got popular and what drives whether you have to pay for the data plan is the POPULARITY of the phone...if people just gotta have it, then let's make sure they pay for a data plan in order to get it. So that's what Verizon decided to do...sell those phones cheap, rope people into a contract that had to include a data plan. Verizon does it because they can (so far) If I could afford a Caddy I'd buy it, but I wouldn't have to activate Onstar in order to get it. I'd rather pay more for the phone. This isn't the only board where complaints are being lodged. Verizon's own community board has just such complaints, but I suspect you already know that and are Verizon's standard bearer on that board as well.

Thanks for the tip about removing the shortcut..I'll look into it.

*throws in towel*

You know what you're right Verizon is big and evil out to ruin families, burn their pets and rape their babies they're the antichrist and will bring the end of the world to all of us by 2012, but in the end...there phones still require data plan if you want your stupid calendar :D

Now you're getting it! :D But seriously...I'll just switch carriers at the end of my contract and let Verizon know why. All I can do. This was a fun debate though! Happy Holidays!

I bet Martmart is employed by Verizon LOL... Otherwise, he just flat out [censor]ed... I'm disgusted with Verizons for the data package down the customers throat BS... I thinking about switching too!

I bet Martmart is employed by Verizon LOL... Otherwise, he's just flat out [censor]ed... I'm disgusted with Verizon for shoving the data package down the customers throat... I'm thinking about switching too!

Would be helpful if you gave reasoning as to how im "[censor]ed", hopefully you're reason is because i don't agree with the whining you people present and have no beef with Verizon. I expect an intelligent answer from you.

We are in the same boat. One phone is for my mom and she can not figure out voice mail let alone internate. What I hate is they change everything from charges to warantees at will. They are just as bad as a quick stop theif, At leats there you see your theif. The only way you ever get service is to threaten to leave, Then the threaten charges for leaving. I got four phones all at the same time but some how the expiration dates on the contracts vary by as much as a year. weird should they not be the same.

as an employee of VZW I will say you can't make everyone happy. If you look at other carriers they don't allow you to have unlimted internest. look at the millions of people that need internet on thre phones. They save millions of dollars each year but this $30 plan. You get upset about paying $10 for internest. Well to be honest that is your choice to pick a phone that is requried to have internet. I mean let think about the time of day we are in now. Everyone wants to be in touch with there friends and family in any wayt hey can. Myspace, Facebook, E-mail, Etc. that is why you see most phone need internet. The cell phone aren't made by Verizon

To Ernie18...as an employee of Verizon, then you must be fully aware of the inaccuracy of your statement. True...the phones are not made by Verizon, but the Internet REQUIREMENT is dictated by Verizon, not the phone maker. The phone I have, at the time I bought it, did NOT require a data package. NOW it does. The phone will work fine without the data package...it is VERIZON requiring the purchase of the data package. As has been said before, this requirement of a data package in order to get a phone with other nice features is the gripe here. The same as purchasing a computer for COMPUTING purposes only, but being required to purchase internet access because the computer has the capability. Ridiculous! You say it is our choice to pick a phone required to have internet. What choice is that?

Also, somebody else commented about getting their phones all at the same time, but the expiration dates differ...I, too, would like an answer as to why that is so. My guess is that by staggering the dates, they keep you locked in longer. Another insidious little tactic.

Irish lady: I would love to have the casio commando, but it also requires a data plan. I also would like to have an F-350 diesel truck, but could only afford an F-150. Don't look now but all of them (AT&T) have cool featured phones (blackberry), but they also require a data plan. I have five phones on my plan. My wife wanted the android x2. We have to pay for a data plan. I went with the casio Brigade, instead of the comando. so that my wife could have the android. When I graduate and make more money (and can afford it), I will purchase a comando, and the data plan. My point is that, we sometimes become spoiled, and want the same ammenities as the upper class, but we think we're entitled to those same ammenities that others have to pay for, at the same rock bottom prices we are used to. The best will never cost as little as the worst. Stop pouting, and either create more income, or settle for what you can afford until you can. Create a better future, and stop asking "Corporate America" (the evil empire) to hand it out to you, just because you're nice and they're rich, doesn't mean you're entitled. That's liberal thinking, and that is what is bankrupting America!

Irish Lady: I really do not mean to offend you, but do you think that those who pay 19.99 per month for a satelite tv pachage should get the same 500 premium channels as those who pay 99.99 per month? Do not misunderstand, I would LOVE to get the same privelages, but you get what you pay for. Go to the store and try to buy the best quality food products for the same price as those who buy the generic goods and see what the difference in the bill will be. You get what you pay for. If you want an android just to make calls, text, and all the features without the data expense, then accept that you will not likely own an android. Find the best you can get for what you can afford, and go with it until the future looks brighter. Just sayin.

to many of you. If you want luxury, do not ask that you be given the same as those who must pay more, at poverty level prices, just because they make more. Let every man feed another, but let NO man starve his own, that others may eat. This is America, I do not hear those who can afford a data plan complaining. Our country is all but bankrupt because of that mentality. Either make more money, and get the goodies, like everyone else has to, or settle for what you can afford. Read! Learn to be practical. My five phone plan was riddled with insurance expenses! Six dollars per month times five phones! That came to 360.00 per year, plus the fifty dollar deductible for the four that I had to replace in just six months would have come to 560.00 dollars. I researched and found that, I could buy almost new phones on ebay for 25.00, and eliminate the insurance. I spent (in four months) 110.00 replacing four phones on ebay, and eliminated the insurance saving myself 450.00! I did not ask verizon to provide my family with perks and discounts. I made my kids suffer with 'make and take a call' plans only. Too bad, a hundred years ago we did not even have phones. The American dream was conceived and achieved on the concept of getting ahead through working harder and smarter. Today we only ask that those who have GIVE to those of us who have not. I am willing to bet that, once we adopt that standard, we will no longer have a corporate America to complain about, but rather we will just kick back and wait for someone (the government) to see to our selfish needs. Wake up and work America!

mjaw...you are completely missing the point and have digressed into a political diatribe aimed at the liberals.

As I have said repeatedly...I do not mind having to pay extra for a nicer phone. I did pay more. But at the time, it did not require a data plan. But to have to pay for a data plan just for the privilege of paying more for a better phone is ridiculous. I don't want the data plan. I don't need the data plan. If I did, then I would be perfectly willing to pay for it, of course. I do however want the features of the nicer phone, which I am perfectly willing to pay more for. Again...I will pay more for the PHONE. Even if they said that I'd have to pay even more for the phone if I didn't buy the data plan, that would be more acceptable. But they want that extra money EVERY month. They're telling me that I can't even buy the phone at any price, unless I buy the data plan.

As a matter of fact, lately I have considered purchasing a data plan, but the idea of being FORCED to purchase it, just to have the phone is what stops me from buying the data plan. In other words, I refuse to buy into that corporate coercion. My Verizon contract has just completed...I'm shopping around.

@irishlady: I guess I was confused about what you wanted. I just Assumed (and yes go ahead with the cliche lol) that you wanted something along the lines of a Smart phone, but without the data. I really am unaware if they make such a phone. I just didn't know enough about what you were looking for. It just sort of came off to me as though you were looking for a top notch smart phone, but didn't want to have to take the data plan. I wanted to actually do that once a few years back. I was with AT&T, and wanted a new Blackberry, but couldn't afford a data plan, yet they told me I couldn't activate a Blackberry without getting the data plan. I felt let down, but had to accept their crap. My daughter has a (crux). I think it is a pantec. It is not a smart phone, but does have the touch screen, and app capable. I personally have a hard time with touch screen technology, but she seems to really like her phone. I apologize for the critical words without first knowing what you were wanting, and I'm probably still not 100% clear, but I do apologize. I took what you meant the wrong way. Sorry. I am curious though, what phone, or kind of phone are you interested in? Maybe I could help you look around some. Anyway, whether you choose to accept my apology is entirely up to you, but for the sake of decency, and my own integrity you can know that I truly am sorry. And you were right.

@mjaw...you are not entirely off the mark: I do want a nice phone without the data plan, but not necessarily a Blackberry. I currently have an LG ENV. Works just fine without a data plan. It's getting old now. Last I heard, it now requires purchase of a data plan, so I can't replace it with a new one now. That's just wrong. People are assuming that because a phone is not AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE without a data plan, that means the phone won't operate without one and that is just blatantly false. We should have a CHOICE whether to purchase the data plan or not. Just because one can afford it, doesn't mean they should HAVE to buy it. What boils me is that the choice of phones sans data plan is getting smaller and smaller...all that is available are low-end phones with crappy calendars (or none) and hardly any non-data dependent features. Most of these nice phones will operate just fine independent of a data plan. Why can't I buy one without buying the data plan? What's wrong with wanting a nice phone without a data plan? The high-end phones are more expensive. Of course they are. I get that. I don't want something for nothing. I just don't want the damn data plan. It would make more sense for Verizon to do the opposite: if you want to buy a data plan, you have to buy the high-end phone, not the other way around.

Your satellite TV analogy is not the same. You are talking about the service. I'm talking about the device. I want the device, not the plan. I will happily pay more for a nicer phone without a plan...let them up the price of the phone. They will not let me! They say NO, YOU CANNOT BUY THIS PHONE AT ANY PRICE WITHOUT A DATA PLAN.

I have satellite TV. I pay for quite a lot of channels, just not the premium HBO, etc. I have a high-end DVR on my receiver. I have the DEVICE. I was not REQUIRED to have HD service in order to have the DVR. I spring for HD and local channels. I love it. And I am not required to purchase HBO, or any other premium channel, or purchase the "TV Anwhere" (or whatever it's called) in order to have the HD service and the high-end DVR am I? I just wanted HD. THERE is my point. I have a CHOICE. It's the exact same thing. I can still have my DVR without purchasing HD service or HBO or anything else. I CHOOSE to buy the HD service.

Cell phone: I am required to buy cellular service to have a phone.
Satellite: I am required to buy satellite service to have a satellite receiver.

Cell phone: I AM required to buy a data plan in order to have a NICE phone.
Satellite: I am NOT required to buy HD, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime or Gold Package etc. to have NICE receiver with DVR.

See the difference? Satellite does not require I purchase special programming in order to have my DEVICE.

As to your offer of help finding a phone, I will certainly keep that in mind and thank you! My Verizon contract just ended a few days ago, so I have no idea what's out there now. I like gadgets as much as the next person, and I do need a phone that functions as a PDA. I like having a camera. I do not need it to connect to the internet, or whatever. It's not a question of being able to afford it. That's not the point. It's just not fiscally responsible to spend for a data plan I don't need. I have a computer for that. I do not feel the need to be constantly connected and tethered to my phone. I don't need to know right that minute if somebody on my "friend" list has a headache. If there's something that somebody feels I should know, they can text me personally. Otherwise, it'll wait til the next time I log in.

Peace! (and no apologies necessary!)

Irishlady: Thanks so much for your understanding. I really do understand your point now, and I agree. I really think that you are especially correct when you refer to these companies forcing folks to take cheap crappy little phones unless they are willing to purchase somehting they don't need! From a consumer standpoint that is strongarming. I have the verizon MIFI, so I don't need to purchase data to my phone as well. Yet, in order to get a good quality phone, I have to purchase the data that I already have through them, and frankly don't need. I have really thought about this and I think (again, only think) that this may have to do with their studies on economic trends, and drawing what they only think are more realistic (I call it profitable) markets. If you've noticed, the prepaid industry has really begun to evolve. With so many carriers now people can get unlimited everything (voice, data, text, etc.), with an upper end phone for as little as thirty five dollars per month. Which, ultimately ends up costing the consumer much more than the advertized price (but that's another Jerry Springer episode lol). I tend to believe that, their studies show that there is a large market who would like to have all of the goodies, but either don't qualify (without a large deposit), or can't afford a plan. In your case, you can afford it, but just don't need the data, yet you do not want to get stuck with a cheap flip phone as a penalty for not buying something you simply don't need, am I close? This is where I agree with you. I believe that companies such as Motorola (Android), Apple (Iphone), and the like should see a market (only because I believe there exists such a market) for folks who wish to stay with a good quality phone, then from there offer what I like to refer to as a "Stepping" order. In other words "I would like to purchase an android, but would only like to have voice, text, and perhaps a navigator, and GPS capability". I do not want the data plan, as I already have internet access (no need to pay for 2 forms of access). I hope I am getting close to your theory.
That being said we have to ask ourselves a couple of questions. (1) While you and I feel very strongly about this, if we were placed in a stadium filled with 80, 000 other users, (I know sounds dumb so far lol), would what we believe about this represent a majority, or perhaps just a handful of supporters (demand). (2) If we were the CFO of a providing cell carrrier, and our job was NOT to meet the needs of consumers, but rather create a healthy bottom line, what would we ask ourselves regarding this issue? (1) We would now be continuing as a provider to consumers, to purchase androids and iphones at the same price, however, we are now realizing less revenue by offering these phones for minimal need and return (we are no longer mandating the data plans, and therefore lose revenue). The truth is irishlady (and you are very much a lady for having forgiven me), these phones (at least I believe), were never designed as a way to provide a quality product. I believe their sole purpose was, and likely always will be, to sell data plans! They are a selling tool! Not the answer to our need as consumers for a quality product. Wrong perhaps yes, but facts to be faced.
Finally, if it were possible to provide such a phone, without higher revenue generation as the goal. In other words, if we could all purchase quality phones, without having to pay for the extras (data), what would that do to the junk phone market. There is a multi billion dollar industry, not to mention the rip off insurance policies for these phones, with their deductibles. Think about it; you provide insurance to a majority of free and junk phone users. You charge a 50.00 deductible for replacement phone, plus a monthly premium. The replacement phone costs you 20.00 (maybe 10.00 if refurbished, which most are). You've just made 30.00 -40.00 on the refurb, and the premiums were all free money. Do you think they're going to let that happen so that your needs can be met? Think about it hon.
From my research, AT&T, Sprint/nextel, Verizon/alltel, and Tmobile (soon to be the child company of AT&T) all require a data plan contract in order to purchase a phone that will not end up in the insurance company's already fat bank account. The best we can DO is find the best quality phone, that allows us only what we need from it, and instead of insuring it, drop the policy and buy one on ebay. It will save you the premium, and will likely last longer than the crappy replacement they will send you. The best we can HOPE for is that, in time the consumer will do as the consumer has the power to do - create the demand! Good luck irishlady...

By the way irishlady. Your last paragraph made more sense to me than most books I have read. The term fiscally resposible is not often understood, and certainly not adhered to anymore by many. Your reasoning speaks volumes of wisdom. I would certainly be willing to support you in a letter to verizon by substantiating what you have said. You're brilliant, and posess a keen sense of logic. Peace to you as well. Michael

lol irishlady is still being stubborn good to see you haven't changed your crazy ways!

Keep it up

That may not be fair of you to say martmart. Irishlady is in a scenario in which, she is NOT looking for an upperend product, with all the frills for nothing. She has the resources to pay for what she wants, but does not NEED all the required plans that they will force on her in order to "Not only keep her bound for two additional years", but will in essence "Force her to pay for something she does not need". If I sell you a new car for your wife, and all YOU need is a small truck to haul light things, and don't see the need to purchase a new F-350 one ton dually, wouldn't you be upset if I told you that you HAD to purchase a one ton dually with a dump bed? That is why the "Pre-Paid" "unlimited everything" plans are coming to fruition. Consumers were once forced to enter into long term contracts, with high end deposits in order to get unlimited voice, text and data. Someone actually saw a market (and whoever it was, was a visionary) for those who did not want the burden of contracts and forced products. Now, because someone was intelligent enough to -not only care about the consumer, but saw a profit margin, was able to provide a service that offers a fair deal, and meets people's needs, and with the products they actually want. I mean don't be so damned hasty man.
I believe that if Apple, Motorola, Blackberry, and the like were smart, they might in fact at least perform a feasibility study to determine perhaps, if there does exist a market in which, these phones could be purchased, and function in such a way that, they would provide only what the consumer needs. Right now Verizon is offering an Android deal "Buy one get one free". I would love to get two of them, but the fact that I would have to add two more data plans is rediculous! That's 60 bucks a month more for something that our MIFI already has covered. So, in fact they are not selling Androids at a great price to offer better phones. They are luring those who want Androids into "Two more data plans". Think about it. The Androids are nothing more than "Bait" for the monthly 60 dollars they are after. That is all she (irishlady) is saying. I think she is looking for a fair market that does not yet exist, but I think she is being MORE than reasonable. Lighten up on her. She is a nice lady. Think fairly for once.

Michael, Thanks for your kind words. As to MartMart...He and I seem to be in a long-standing debate in which, unable to make his point reasonably and logically, he resorts to name-calling. He believes if you have the funds to purchase the data plan in order to get a nice phone, you should go ahead and do that without griping about it. I don't happen to agree. I have better things to spend my money on.

And on the subject of fiscal responsibility: We have ditched all our credit cards. I have an ATM card that serves the purpose of a "credit card, " where one is required. If we can't afford something, we simply don't buy it. Interestingly enough, without those cards, I find I have a LOT more money left at the end of the month which accumulates. Emergency purchases, medical, etc...I can pay cash for them. It's curiously liberating. We needed new furniture. We paid cash. We are building a cabin in northern Michigan. We bought the land cash. We are building the cabin cash (my husband is building it himself...he's wonderfully capable and handy!) We paid for the well (expensive!), septic, power, excavating and stump-pulling...cash. We OWN what we have there free and clear. We have no car payments - we own our cars free and clear (my car was paid for with cash) We have a mortgage, period. I bought a new laptop when the video on my old one went bad...cash. We pay for Christmas cash. If we don't have it, we don't spend it. AND just because we have it, doesn't mean we spend it for something we don't need. The cabin will be our retirement home for the summers. We're working on getting something in Florida for the winters. Rest assured, that will be paid cash as well. We are working toward our future and giving Verizon extra money every month for a stupid data plan isn't part of our future.