National Bank Of Canada [NBC]’s earns a 1.4-star rating from 10 reviews, showing that the majority of clients are dissatisfied with banking services.
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Consistently substandard customer service at NBC investment of Canada
NBC Investments sent me a wrong T3 tax receipt & when I phoned them to report it, an agent by the name of "Frankie" gave me 3 long holds & totally failed to local what went wrong, etc. during a 40 minute call this morning. Furthermore, this "Frankie" person kept interrupting me when I spoke. Finally he said "someone from another department will call me by the end of today (of course, this seems to be another lie from this "Frankie" as no one called me at all.
I also demanded multiple times to get in touch with a supervisor which "Frankie" kept putting up much resistance & eventually he said "a supervisor will call you today" & this turns out being another lie this "Frankie" person gave me this morning.
Total incompetence & substandard customer support, their so called supervisors & their ombudsman are all so very unacceptable at National Bank of Canada Investment that I stopped giving them any further business for over 10 years & moving my funds away at the same time.
Total disappointment with this so called 7th biggest bank in Canada.
Total disgrace & shame on National Bank of Canada Investments
Service (Robert Rousseau. manager)
Went the other day to pay - credit line 3 cashier booth 2 for business clientele (no signs indicating) 1 for private banking 2 persons and manager walking around with ipads. Waited in line with 7 other persons 15 20 mins. Gave up waiting and saw manager Robert Rousseau. Explained how long I had waited, was told that is the way they function. Asked if...
Read full review of National Bank Of Canada [NBC]horrible customer service & totally non transparent & biased complaint protocol
My simple complaint from FOUR MONTHS AGO involving several of this bank's employees being incompetent to answer one straight-forward bank fee question & worse, treating me with much attitude & hang up on me when I asked to speak to their manager.
My 2 complaint files dated May 2/19 being filed with 2 different National Bank employees with separate departments as a result of my series of negative experiences from NBC employees just because I asked a simple regarding their bank fees. I tried to get a reference/complaint file number or a copy of what they wrote but was denied in addition to denial for me to speak with a Supervisor/manager. I was only able to obtain the 2 names of NBC employees who were supposedly helped me to file these complaints.
And one of their employees about 10 years ago deceived me to move
funds into this bank. What a National Bank of Canada. Shame! Shame! AND MORE SHAMES ON THIS BANK
If I am not incorrect, this bank is a publicly listed business, however, this bank's president & board of directors keep ignoring open letters & emails from a badly treated long term customer under their leadership & governance.
And why these top executive & directors are being so very much protected & secretive that over a dozen of bank employees said they do not know their names or contact information in addition denying my repeated requests to communicate with their managers?
WHAT A BANK WITH ALL THESE PERFECTLY WORDED POLICIES, PROTOCOLS & PROCESSES RE CUSTOMER CARE, ETC. WHICH REMAIN DECORATIONS IN THEIR OFFICES
I have started removing all monies and investments out of this bank that I was a member for more then 35 years. I am mortgage free. The customer service has been terrible and at times an unethical behaviour in the past year, very rude people. I guess they do not know about the saying " take care of your customers or someone else will" Tangerine and Quest trade now have my business.
Is National Bank Of Canada [NBC] Legit?
National Bank Of Canada [NBC] earns a trustworthiness rating of 91%
Highly recommended, but caution will not hurt.
We found clear and detailed contact information for National Bank Of Canada [NBC]. The company provides a physical address, 2 phone numbers, and 2 emails, as well as 5 social media accounts. This demonstrates a commitment to customer service and transparency, which is a positive sign for building trust with customers.
National Bank Of Canada [NBC] has registered the domain name for nbc.ca for more than one year, which may indicate stability and longevity.
Nbc.ca has a valid SSL certificate, which indicates that the website is secure and trustworthy. Look for the padlock icon in the browser and the "https" prefix in the URL to confirm that the website is using SSL.
Nbc.ca has been deemed safe to visit, as it is protected by a cloud-based cybersecurity solution that uses the Domain Name System (DNS) to help protect networks from online threats.
Nbc.ca you are considering visiting, which is associated with National Bank Of Canada [NBC], is very old. Longevity often suggests that a website has consistently provided valuable content, products, or services over the years and has maintained a stable user base and a sustained online presence. This could be an indication of a very positive reputation.
National Bank Of Canada [NBC] website is deemed to be popular and indicating that it receives a high volume of traffic. It is important to be cautious when using a highly trafficked website, as it may be a target for cybercriminals looking to exploit vulnerabilities or steal personal information.
This website offers payment methods that provide the option for customers to get their money back, which could be a positive indicator of the company's commitment to customer satisfaction.
However ComplaintsBoard has detected that:
- While National Bank Of Canada [NBC] has a high level of trust, our investigation has revealed that the company's complaint resolution process is inadequate and ineffective. As a result, only 10% of 10 complaints are resolved. The support team may have poor customer service skills, lack of training, or not be well-equipped to handle customer complaints.
- We conducted a search on social media and found several negative reviews related to National Bank Of Canada [NBC]. These reviews may indicate issues with the company's products, services, or customer support. It is important to thoroughly research the company and its offerings before making any purchases to avoid any potential risks.
Complaint and investigation ignored / deceived
Unbelievable but true story
1. Is there anybody else out there, who had any attempt to get their mortgage put in default for writ of seizure and sale (Credit card debts). Oh, yeah legal terminology is wonderful when you can use it from the term of mortgage. Lawyer's are knowledgeable right...
2. Was your mortgage ever sent to the collection department without you being advised. (Mortgage without assignment) they say they do not have to contact you...You go to your local bank and ask why that is my mortgage payments not taken but money is sitting in bank account, no answers from the local bank is provided, no explanations, no letters...
3. Is there anybody out there, that was called by a nbc law firm representing and was told to get out of their house before the sheriff shows up because you had a capital one writ and if you owe capital one money and if you do not pay the debt, you will have to get out of your house immediately.
But when this action is investigated, the law firm rep says that this action did not happen. Then the loan officer has a conference telephone call with the client and this law representative, and the loan officer also denies that this discussion happened and that she told the client to get out of their house.
4. Upon investigation and a family member having a verbal discussion with the nbc ombudsman, robert calgagni, he says that these two people who did this action both confirmed that it did not happen and they did not say to client to get out of their house.
Do you think that this a fair investigation on the part of ombudsman of national bank of canada. Especially when the rep says, "you should be grateful nbc has covered your lawyer's fees of $ 4, 500.00. Would you be grateful for their generosity but forget the damage that they have done to these client's. ... The stress that they caused them. The potential of losing their home...
Folks, this story is not made up because it did happen to a member of my family this year 2016. Unbelievable but true
How can a person with no money... Fight the system when nobody out there is listening !, , , ,
Thank you for your comment.
Yes I know what a lien is and i know what the bank can do. And i do understand the NBC term of mortgage, and their power to do an action against the owner. SHOULD THE BANK HAVE DONE THEIR PROCESS THE RIGHT WAY, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT, BUT IT WAS NOT DONE SO.
But this is a case of a homeowner being told verbally WITH A TELEPHONE CALL to get out of their home without any legal document filed from the bank.
It is called a lien against your property and yes, any creditor can sue you and once they have a judgment they can attach a lien against your property.
Mortgage fraud
TO: ombudsman.[protected]@nbc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, Judith.[protected]@nbc.ca,
christine.[protected]@nbc.ca, ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca, mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@obsi.ca
date: Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 1:51 PM
subject: Re: FRAUDULENT MORTGAGES NBC
RE: NBC MORTGAGE FRAUD
September 27, 2016
Dear Ombudsman,
FORMAL COMPLAINT MORTGAGE FRAUD NBC
Any Financial Institution in Canada should comply with the law and not be able to benefit from their employees or even legal representatives fraudulent activities
Deceit should not be tolerated for it erodes public confidence in the credibility of the Financial Institutions and in the Administration of Justice.
Financial Institutions should not be knowingly engaging in fraudulent conduct and be able to benefit from it.
I am writing to you in this manner and including the senior members of the bank because plainly speaking I have exhausted all avenues within the National Bank of Canada (Bank) complaint process and time has run out. I have written to you and followed the complaint process with no avail.
This is a formal complaint against National Bank Canada for engaging in deceptive fraudulent mortgage transactions, specifically
1. Creating four (4) different fraudulent refinancing mortgages disguised as purchase and sales trying to register $205K instead of the $114K owed
2. Inducing me into a fraudulent mortgage through their solicitors
3. Knowingly sending out four (4) different solicitor Instructions that are fraudulent
4. Forcing me to withdraw my complaints of FRAUD & THEFT & SIN BREACH as a condition of re-Financing then
5. Reneging on a settlement agreement
6. Theft of $843 February 15 2016
7. Fraudulent under $5000 February 11 and 19 2016
2. From June 27 2016 until September 16 2016 I was continuously misled, threatened by the bank NBC and their lawyers, who excluded me from conversations and sent directly to four (4) different solicitor instructions I have copies of them), six (6) different mortgages with different numbers, refused to involve me
3. Bank arranged to find another lawyer S.R. to do the illegal transfer.
4. On September 9 2016 I received an email from Real Estate Lawyers advising me that the bank National Bank Canada retained them to complete transaction, but omitting to tell them it was fraudulent.
5. On September 15 2016 Bank sent personally solicitor instructions to Dawn Law with a closing date set for September 19 2016 and spoke to her over the phone. She then sent an email to me stating the following:
The bank tried to register $205K as a purchase and sale instead of the $114K, without telling me,
On August 30 2016 After refusing to agree to $205K the bank threatened me if I did not sign their mortgage papers which were riddled with erros and backdated to July 8 2016. The bank did not have a registered mortgage on my property and tried to induce me into signing a refinance disguised as purchase and sale knowing there is no purchaser . When I asked questions and wanted to seek legal advice, I was told by the bank retained lawyers to shut up and do what they say .otherwise they are issuing a notice of sale
I recorded them and now they are under investogation by the law society
If after reading this letter the bank continues to refuse to investigate and address my complaints of internal fraudulent activities, involving my account and the illegal use, sharing of my personal SIN between employees and the forged documents being circulated, then the bank will be perceived as concealing and/or supporting these kinds of internal fraud activity.
Please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN response in 7 calendar days.
Thank you
Refusal to Investigate Complaints involving internal Fraud and Breach of Security
Ms. Marinis,
This is a formal complaint against you, your deliberate misrepresentations made about my account, your negligence as a Branch Manager in failing/refusing to investigate my complaints of fraud/theft from my account, and the violations you committed against me and my rights under the Consumer Protection Act, Code of Conduct, and Bank Act.
1. On January 19, 2016 I had $842 in available credit from which my monthly interest was being paid, as per the line of credit agreement. The average interest rate is $350/month. On February 19, 2016 the available credit would have been $495 ($842- $347)
2. Between January 19 and February 3 2016, someone from your branch committed the act of theft and fraud in the amount of $495 between January 19, 2016 and February 1, 2016. Without any prior notice or forewarning you or your employee withdrew without trace $495 from my available credit, created a ZERO available credit, charged the stolen $495 to my total balance and bogus overdraft fees and then sent my account to collections, without any notice or warning, all contrary to your own Banks code of conduct.,
3. You falsely misrepresented to the collections department in Montreal that you followed the banks rules and sent me notifications in writing and attempted to contact me, and find a resolution. All of which are blatant lies.
4. The undisputed truth is you failed/refused to send me any disclosure statements of account, notices of insufficient funds, default, nor have you ever attempted to contact me in 7 years, since 2009, which is all contrary to section 439 Bank Act and 80 of the Consumer Protection Act.
5. On March 3, 2016 I received a letter dated February 26, 2016 demanding letter from collections department. This was the first time in 7 years someone contacted me from the bank. I immediately contacted the Collection department spoke to Ms. Zineb and made a proposal for payment.
6. On March 8, 2016 your employee Pat Boudouris contacted me and intentionally misled me to come to your branch today March 16, 2016 to refinance, and make arrangements for payment.
7. On March 14, 2016 you sent me a letter advising me that I am over the limit and requesting that I remedy and make payment.
8. On March 15, 2016 in response to your letter I advised you of that I had available credit and was not over the limit until February 2016 advised you of the fraud and theft issues and requested you to investigate and return back the $495 that was taken from my account and put my account into the way it was on January 2016 before the fraud and theft. and remove the false overdraft charges,
9. Today on March 16, 2016 I attended the branch in good faith with money, financial documents, statements of account, receipts, thinking that you the bank had investigated my complaints and was going to help me resolve my matter. You Misled Me.
10. Instead of investigating my complaint, and helping me resolve the my matter, I was ambushed into a closed room without any forewarning and continuously intimidated, insulted, humiliated, and degraded for over 2 hours, all because of asking you to do your job and investigate my complaint of fraud and theft committed against me.
11. You refused to investigate my complaints, and refused to correct the errors you made. When I asked you to explain the missing $495 you threatened me with foreclosure of my home.
12. You refused to help me in any way, refused to accept my payment plan and denied me the fundamental right to make a payment towards my account.
13. When I tried to explain to you about my previous deposits into the bank machine not showing up in my statements you accused me of lying. Then I deposited in front of you and your own customer service manager $800 and provided you with the receipts showing and proving to you that deposited $800 did not show up in the overdue amount. You refused to investigate why the money deposited in the ATM did not appear on my account and refused to apologize for calling me a liar.
14. You refused to become familiar with my account, you have no knowledge about my account, and refused to take any steps to become familiar with my account before making such degrading false accusations.
15. You refused to help me and told me to go call collections because they have my file, despite calling me and misleading me to come to your branch.
16. You refused to follow your own banks code of conduct, act in good faith, provide me with proper notices before sending my account to collections or charging me additional fees. You intentionally misled me and refused to investigate my complaints.
NBC CODE OF CONDUCT
If the credit relationship changes in such a way that additional information is required, the client is contacted and given a reasonable amount of time to provide this information.
Normally, the Bank will notify its clients at least 15 calendar days in advance of any measures it intends to implement following a change in the credit relationship. In addition, National Bank will inform its clients in writing of any modification affecting their credit relationship with the Bank (e.g. change in terms and conditions, fees or financing).
VIOLATIONS
I. Contrary to section 439 of the Bank Act, and section 80 (3), of the Consumer Protection Act, you refused/failed to notify me of Insufficient scheduled payments within 30 days as required under section 80 (4) Consumer Protection Act
II. Contrary to section 71. Consumer Protection Act, you refused to investigate and correct my complaints of theft and fraud.
III. Contrary to the National Banks Code of Conduct you did not advise me 15 days in advance prior to sending my account to collections
IV. Contrary to the National Banks Code of Conduct you failed to act in good faith by intentionally misrepresenting my account to the collections department, failing to take any steps to investigate my complaints of fraud and theft.
DESPITE all the above I made a $820 payment at the branch ATM and the bank accepted my payment.
REMEDY REQUESTED
I have no trust or confidence in the Danforth branch. They defrauded me out of my money and misrepresented my account
Therefore I request immediately that my account be transferred to the branch on Victoria Park and Kingston road or any other competent branch which will be able to resolve my matter without prejudice or bias.
I request that you investigate the missing $495 from available credit from my account, remove the illegal overdraft charges and correct my account to the same condition that it was before it was sent to collections.
I request to meet with someone competent from another bank and resolve my matter, without prejudice or bias.
I request to be notified as per the code of conduct of any changes are made to my account or any additional charges or fees are charged
I request to receive statements of my account by paper and request to know the cost of borrowing, interest and how payments are applied.
I am hopeful that the Ombudsman will enforce the Banks Code of Conduct and respond to this complaint.
However if the bank refuses to investigate my complaints and violations committed against me by the Danforth Branch, then I will further elevate this complaint to the Financial Services Commission Ontario and ask them to investigate the matter instead.
good complaint
Unless you have a lot of time on hand, get a competent lawyer. To what I can see, the bank is not going to deal with you in good faith.
Refusal to investigate and address Internal Fraudulent Transfers
To: NATIONAL BANK OF CANADA
Branch [protected] DANFORTH AVE TORONTO,
Ontario M4K 1R2 via fax at [protected] and [protected] and [protected]
ATTENTION MS. Marinis Marina Branch Manager
c.c COLLECTIONS DEPARTMENT MS. ZINEB
c.c. National Bank Ombudsman ombudsman.[protected]@nbc.ca
March 16, 2016
Subject: FORMAL COMPLAINT- REFUSAL TO INVESTIGATE THEFT AND FRAUD
Ms. Marinis,
This is a formal complaint against you, your deliberate misrepresentations made about my account, your negligence as a Branch Manager in failing/refusing to investigate my complaints of fraud/theft from my account, and the violations you committed against me and my rights under the Cost of borrowing Act, Consumer Protection Act, Code of Conduct, and Bank Act.
1. On January 19, 2016 I had $842 in available credit from which my monthly interest was being paid, as per the line of credit agreement. The average interest rate is $350/month. On February 19, 2016 the available credit would have been $495 ($842- $347)
2. Between January 19 and February 3 2016, someone from your branch committed the act of theft and fraud in the amount of $495 between January 19, 2016 and February 1, 2016. Without any prior notice or forewarning you or your employee withdrew without trace $495 from my available credit, created a ZERO available credit, charged the stolen $495 to my total balance and bogus overdraft fees and then sent my account to collections, without any notice or warning, all contrary to your own Banks code of conduct.,
3. You falsely misrepresented to the collections department in Montreal that you followed the banks rules and sent me notifications in writing and attempted to contact me, and find a resolution. All of which are blatant lies.
4. The undisputed truth is you failed/refused to send me any disclosure statements of account, notices of insufficient funds, default, nor have you ever attempted to contact me in 7 years, since 2009, which is all contrary to section 439 Bank Act and 80 of the Consumer Protection Act.
5. On March 3, 2016 I received a letter dated February 26, 2016 demanding letter from collections department. This was the first time in 7 years someone contacted me from the bank. I immediately contacted the Collection department spoke to Ms. Zineb and made a proposal for payment.
6. On March 8, 2016 your employee Pat Boudouris contacted me and intentionally misled me to come to your branch today March 16, 2016 to refinance, and make arrangements for payment.
7. On March 14, 2016 you sent me a letter advising me that I am over the limit and requesting that I remedy and make payment.
8. On March 15, 2016 in response to your letter I advised you of that I had available credit and was not over the limit until February 2016 advised you of the fraud and theft issues and requested you to investigate and return back the $495 that was taken from my account and put my account into the way it was on January 2016 before the fraud and theft. and remove the false overdraft charges,
9. Today on March 16, 2016 I attended the branch in good faith with money, financial documents, statements of account, receipts, thinking that you the bank had investigated my complaints and was going to help me resolve my matter. You Misled Me.
10. Instead of investigating my complaint, and helping me resolve the my matter, I was ambushed into a closed room without any forewarning and continuously intimidated, insulted, humiliated, and degraded for over 2 hours, all because of asking you to do your job and investigate my complaint of fraud and theft committed against me.
11. You refused to investigate my complaints, and refused to correct the errors you made. When I asked you to explain the missing $495 you threatened me with foreclosure of my home.
12. You refused to help me in any way, refused to accept my payment plan and denied me the fundamental right to make a payment towards my account.
13. When I tried to explain to you about my previous deposits into the bank machine not showing up in my statements you accused me of lying. Then I deposited in front of you and your own customer service manager $800 and provided you with the receipts showing and proving to you that deposited $800 did not show up in the overdue amount. You refused to investigate why the money deposited in the ATM did not appear on my account and refused to apologize for calling me a liar.
14. You refused to become familiar with my account, you have no knowledge about my account, and refused to take any steps to become familiar with my account before making such degrading false accusations.
15. You refused to help me and told me to go call collections because they have my file, despite calling me and misleading me to come to your branch.
16. You refused to follow your own banks code of conduct, act in good faith, provide me with proper notices before sending my account to collections or charging me additional fees. You intentionally misled me and refused to investigate my complaints.
NBC CODE OF CONDUCT
If the credit relationship changes in such a way that additional information is required, the client is contacted and given a reasonable amount of time to provide this information.
Normally, the Bank will notify its clients at least 15 calendar days in advance of any measures it intends to implement following a change in the credit relationship. In addition, National Bank will inform its clients in writing of any modification affecting their credit relationship with the Bank (e.g. change in terms and conditions, fees or financing).
VIOLATIONS
I. Contrary to section 439 of the Bank Act, and section 80 (3), of the Consumer Protection Act, you refused/failed to notify me of Insufficient scheduled payments within 30 days as required under section 80 (4) Consumer Protection Act
II. Contrary to section 71. Consumer Protection Act, you refused to investigate and correct my complaints of theft and fraud.
III. Contrary to the National Banks Code of Conduct you did not advise me 15 days in advance prior to sending my account to collections
IV. Contrary to the National Banks Code of Conduct you failed to act in good faith by intentionally misrepresenting my account to the collections department, failing to take any steps to investigate my complaints of fraud and theft.
DESPITE all the above I made a $820 payment at the branch ATM and the bank accepted my payment. The However the overdue amount did not change. I intend to continue making the payments as per my proposed payment plan.
REMEDY REQUESTED
The line of credit agreement is for 300 months (25) years. The agreement requires interest only payments in the amount of $375 on, When I made payments at the Scarborough branch in person on Kingston road, the payment was reflected.
I have no trust or confidence in the Danforth branch. They defrauded me out of my available credit and misrepresented my account to collections.
1) Therefore I request immediately that my account be transferred to the branch on Victoria Park and Kingston road or any other competent branch which will be able to resolve my matter without prejudice or bias.
2) I request that I be given an opportunity to resolve this matter and not be discriminated against. I am not required to be subjected to humiliation, insults, and intimidation nor should I have to be.
3) I request that you investigate the missing $495 from available credit from my account, remove the illegal overdraft charges and correct my account to the same condition that it was before it was sent to collections.
4) I request to meet with someone competent from another bank and resolve my matter, without prejudice or bias.
5) I request to be notified as per the code of conduct of any changes are made to my account or any additional charges or fees are charged
6) I request to receive statements of my account by paper and request to know the cost of borrowing, interest and how payments are applied.
I am hopeful that the Ombudsman will enforce the Banks Code of Conduct and respond to this complaint.
However if the bank refuses to investigate my complaints and violations committed against me by the Danforth Branch, then I will further elevate this complaint to the Financial Services Commission Ontario and ask them to investigate the matter instead.
Sincerely
RK
Ms. Marinis,
Attached is proof of $400 payment from today at the Kingston Rd branch .
Attached is also proof how your branch ATM is manually intercepting my deposits and not processing them automatically like the other branch.
Look at your ATM deposit receipt from March 16 $820 deposited balance did not change. Deposit at a different branch account updated automatically. Why so someone from the branch can count my cash and skim it?
I have confirmed I cannot withdraw any money from my account nor can I make any transfers electronic or via card. Therefore those fraudulent transfers in February 11, 15 were from inside the bank while my account was in dormant status.
Someone inside your branch has manually changed the status of my account from dormant to active fraudulently set up internally-generated debit transfer transactions and brought it to zero without any evidence of fraudulent activity, cleaned out my credit available and sent it to collections.
Your employees knew I was not getting any statements and knew I had no way of knowing what they were doing, cleaned out my account. With no statement and account sent to collections there was no chance of me discovering it. But thanks to collections giving me online access to view my statement and discovered the fraud.
This is why I do not trust your branch and want my file transferred to a different branch
Date: Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM
Subject: UNADDRESSED COMPLAINTS OF NON-COMPLIANCE AND SECURITY BREACHES
To: ombudsman.[protected]@nbc.ca
Dear Ombudsman,
Pursuant to National Bank Canada complaint process, please find attached the unaddressed complaints from the branch level, requested remedy, and supporting documents, letters to the branch.
In total I have sent seven (7) follow up letters since March 16 to the branch asking for a response and proposed resolution. No response nor resolution has been provided. I have documented all my letters and have them available for you.
These documents have been faxed to your office today April 6, 2016 at 2:47PM EST t the Fax: [protected]
Your office states two (2) day response time. I am asking that my consumer rights be respected as per your commitment to other customers and that my complaint be treated with the same priority, without any further reprisal from the branch
Thank you very much
RESPONSE OMBUDSMAN ---JOKE
Mr. K
As per the automated reply you have previously received when you wrote to the Office of the Ombudsman, our Office does communicate with a client within 2 business days of receiving an email. Also, as explained in our March 22nd email, it may take up to 90 days for the analysis of a file to be completed once it has been opened at the Office of the Ombudsman. While we have received your previous correspondence, please note that your file is currently not opened at our Office.
Indeed, following the receipt of your email below, the Office of the Ombudsman was informed that an appointment was set up between your branch and yourself for tomorrow. We therefore refer you to your branch for discussion. Should you remain dissatisfied after you receive a final answer from your branch, we invite you to communicate with our Office to escalate your complaint.
Also, as email is not a secure means of communication, we advise you not to use it to send your personal or banking information. Only general information should be sent by email.
Regards,
Description : Logo
Bureau de l’ombudsman des clients / Office of the Ombudsman for Clients (Transit : 9152-1)
[protected] / [protected]
[protected] / [protected]
@ ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca
Banque Nationale du Canada | National Bank of Canada
Casier postal 275 / P.O. Box 275, Montréal (Québec), H2Y 3G7
MY RESPONSE
Dear Ombudsman,
I do not know what chain of emails you are referring to? Since your last response on March 22, 2016 I have not included you in any emails with the branch.
My meeting with the branch is about an is not related to the complaints that your office handles. If I am wrong please correct me but I don't think your office deals with complaints about credit decisions, interest rates, mortgage agreements or line of credit applications?
My complaints will not be addressed in tomorrows meeting. The complaints are directly related to the branch and as long as my file is that branch my complaints will not be resolved.
I requested that my file be transferred to a closer branch on Kingston rd. and Victoria Park Avenue in my March 16 complaint, but it was denied. Why am I forced against my will to travel 1hr in each direction travel across the city to go to the Danforth branch?
Based on your charter commitment , it states that: "If the situation was not resolved to your satisfaction during the first step, you can submit your complaint to the Office of the Ombudsman in writing or by telephone"
My complaint of banks code of conduct violations, privacy breaches, violations under the Bank Act ARE NOT resolved to my satisfaction and I have submitted my complaints to your office, as per your complaint policy.
If your office is not interested in investigating my unresolved complaints then I have exhausted all avenues within the National Bank of Canada (Bank) complaint process and I will take my complaint to the next level.
Your automated replies are a joke, You are joke and this entire complaint process is rubber stamp joke. In case you don't know what rubber stamped is look up Kangaroo Court
The Office of the National Bank Ombudsman for Clients confirms the reception of your email. An advisor will contact you within the next 2 business days to discuss your situation.
Your complaint must first be submitted to the customer service manager of the branch, department or subsidiary with which you do business. In the majority of cases, that person will be able to resolve the situation satisfactorily. If this step has not been taken, the advisor from the Office of the Ombudsman for Clients will refer you to the right person who can handle your complaint.
Unethical behaviour
I am POA for my Mother Rozella Chapman, I have been trying to get some answers and action from the National Bank and their Master Card. My sister was the POA of my mother and she had told the bank manager Sheila Webb that my mother had dementia, their was not doctor certificate nor any other informantion to prove that nor did Ms Webb ask for any. She may have been POA of my mother but not of my brother Mark Chapman nor was she legal guardian. The bank allowed my sister to take all of their money and investments aswell as their GCI, s I have sent letters to the Obudsman, National bank and Master card aswell as reported it to the police which is still under investigation. Aswell to Equifax, trans Canada and all the rest. Still I get no satisfied reply back. I hold the National Bank, Ms Webb, and Mastercard as well as Capital one response able for all of this happening . My mother is in a nursing home, my brother has sever brain damage and now the bank has caused them great grief with health issues from the stress and about to lose their home. You can get all the info from all I have meantioned on here if you send me a fax I will send you all the Info I have. I wait for your replay back . Thank you . April French at [protected]@hotmail.ca and my fax is [protected]
Ignoring consumer & Democratic & Freedom of Information Rights; Falsification & Misrepresentation of Facts
SUBJECT: I want to file a complaint against National Bank of Canada for:
· IGNORING MY LEGALLY ENTITLED REASONABLE MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS;
· IGNORING AND VIOLATING the Human Rights Code to which I am legally entitled as a Canadian citizen under the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, EVEN though I am a visible minority;
· REFUSING to provide me a copy of my own signature, AFTER DEMANDING that I sign documents;
· Attempting to LIMIT MY LEGAL RIGHTS TO WHICH I AM ENTITLED by his EVIDENCED BULLY TACTICS TO FORCE ME TO SIGN DOCUMENTS that attempt to CURTAIL my legal rights;
· FALSELY AND INCORRECTLY ALLEGING that I "do not agree to terms & conditions stated";
· using FALSE AND CONCOCTED GROUNDS AND MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT TO CANCEL MY VALID COMPLAINT.
· GROUNDS OF DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENT TO ME AND MISUSE OF IT’S VESTED AUTHORITY, AND VINDICTIVE REPRISAL TO ME, BY IT’S EVIDENCED UNJUST ACTIONS.
· I ASK TO BE MADE WHOLE AGAIN.
Dear Sir,
1) On 17August2011, National Bank of Canada Ombudsman representative Mr. Robert Calcagni has FALSELY AND INCORRECTY ALLEGED: "you do not agree to terms & conditions stated", and that "Office of Ombudsman will not be undertaking any investigation ... will not be responding to any further communication in this regard".
2) Please refer to ALL of the self-explanatory sequence of emails below, in reverse chronological order, as well as the self-explanatory attachments, i.e. NBC04Aug2011Reply.pdf and NBC17Aug2011Refusal.jpg.
3) I wish to file a complaint against National Bank of Canada for:
(a) REFUSING to provide me a copy of my own signature, AFTER DEMANDING that I sign documents.
- It is my understanding that I am entitled to a copy of my own signature, and and documents that I am REQUIRED to sign, INCLUDING any referenced addendums;
(b) Attempting to LIMIT MY LEGAL RIGHTS TO WHICH I AM ENTITLED by his EVIDENCED BULLY TACTICS TO FORCE ME TO SIGN DOCUMENTS that attempt to CURTAIL my legal rights;
(c) FALSELY AND INCORRECTLY ALLEGING that I "do not agree to terms & conditions stated";
(d) using FALSE AND CONCOCTED GROUNDS AND MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT TO CANCEL MY VALID COMPLAINT;
(e) MISUSE OF VESTED AUTHORITY AND UNFAIR MEANS TO CANCEL MY VALID COMPLAINT by sending me communication to an INCORRECT address AND THEN attempt to limit me with a "turn-around" ARBITRARY LIMIT of response from me by 27August2011,
- IGNORING MY LEGALLY ENTITLED REASONABLE MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS, AFTER I CLEARLY INFORMED him that I am MEDICALLY UNWELL and REQUIRE A REASONABLE LENGTH OF TIME, which NEVER did exceed his "turn-around" time (even though he and his staff are medically unwell). This also constitutes IGNORING AND VIOLATING the Human Rights Code to which I am legally entitled as a Canadian citizen under the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, EVEN though I am a visible minority.
As I stated in my earlier emailed communication to him (refer below):
- (i) "WANT A FURTHER 90 day TURN-AROUND TIME TO BUREAUCRATICALLY DEAL with A REFUSAL TO PROVIDE ME A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE (ON WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR OVER 4 MONTHS), NOW TRYING TO STIFLE ME WITH YOUR 30-DAY ARBITRARILY IMPOSED DEMANDED RESPONSE TIME ";
- (ii) "GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE BACK-DATED EARLIER LETTER (as EVIDENCED by the DIFFERENCE in the ACTUAL POSTMARK and the DATE ON THE LETTER), AND";
- (iii) "IGNORING REASONABLE MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS TO WHICH I AM LEGALLY ENTITLED AS A CANADIAN CITIZEN UNDER THE CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS, EVEN THOUGH I AM A VISIBLE MINORITY”; “FALSE AND INCORRECT. NOWHERE IN THE EMAILED COMMUNICATION HAVE YOU MENTIONED THIS POINT EARLIER. YOU ARE IN ERROR FOR USING THE PHRASE- "As previously explained"."
- (iv) "Presently, I do not check my PO Box everyday. And I am medically unwell. Your 30 day limit, given ALL of the noted facts (herein and earlier), and my current disability and IGNORING OF IT, ALSO CONSTITUTES a VIOLATION OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS CODE BY YOU"
(f) IN REFUSING TO PROVIDE ME EVEN A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE, AND THEN DODGE A SIMPLE QUESTION (as evidenced by the letter of Ms. Christine AFTER SEVERAL MONTHS) WHICH IS CONTRARY TO EVEN THE PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL JUSTICE IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY.
As I stated in my earlier emailed communication to him (refer below):
- (i) "You have ALREADY done your so-called "analysis of your request". I HAVE MERELY POINTED OUT YOUR ILLOGICAL FALLACIES, BIAS AND PREJUDICE AND SKEWED ANALYSIS, AND NOT EVEN ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS I ASKED YOU, by your representative Ms. Christine, in her response earlier";
- (ii) "WHY do you NOW want this signed-statement FOR THE SAME COMPLAINT OF March2011, and NOT earlier?
Your earlier letter was POSTMARKED (and therefore posted much later) AND REACHED ME OVER 45 days AFTER you dated it. It is VERY LIKELY A TRICK YOU ARE PLAYING BY NOT ALLOWING ME A REASONABLE TIME-FRAME TO RESPOND";
(g) • GROUNDS OF DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENT TO ME AND MISUSE OF IT’S VESTED AUTHORITY, AND VINDICTIVE REPRISAL TO ME, BY IT’S EVIDENCED UNJUST ACTIONS.
• I ASK TO BE MADE WHOLE AGAIN.
4) Please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN response in 7 calendar days. Please respond to BOTH my emails and via postal-mail. This is because of my current medical limitations (that I have referred to above) and any possible errors with email servers, which have been known to occur in the past.
***********
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275 . Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via fax AND postal-mail; AS WELL AS email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, Judith.[protected]@nbc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi.ca )
Dear Sir,
1) (a) This is in response to your postal-mailed letter to me, signed by your Deputy Ombudsman Robert Calcagni. It was postmarked and dated 08August2011, that I have received today.
(b) Also, please refer to ALL of my relevant communications to you, INCLUDING the fax and postal-mailed signed-form and communication that I have sent to you today, and the attachment to this email.
(c) This email also serves as a CONFIRMATION of the fax and postal-mail signed-form and communication that I have sent to you now.
(d) Please NOTE that my earlier signed document stands UNCHANGED. Also, refer to electronic attachment NBC04Aug2011Reply.pdf. In particular, also please note what I have hand-written on the fax and postal-mailed communication sent to you today. Once again, it is noted below.
(e) I have clearly stated: "Be advised that I do NOT agree to ANY limitations that you may set which attempt to limit my legal rights to which I am entitled. Also refer to ALL of my prior communications to your bank, in it's entirety".
(f) Therefore, YOU ARE CLEARLY FALSIFYING fact by ALLEGING: “that you stated on this document that you are not in agreement with its outlined terms & conditions”.
(g ) Please Do NOT FALSIFY fact by MISREPRESENTING what I have stated clearly. You CANNOT AND MAY NOT LIMIT MY LEGAL RIGHTS TO WHICH I AM ENTITLED by your EVIDENCED BULLY TACTICS TO FORCE ME TO SIGN DOCUMENTS that attempt to CURTAIL my legal rights.
(h) Therefore, You are CLEARLY using FALSE AND CONCOCTED GROUNDS AND MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT TO CANCEL MY COMPLAINT. You CANNOT AND MAY NOT LIMIT MY LEGAL RIGHTS TO WHICH I AM ENTITLED by your EVIDENCED BULLY TACTICS TO FORCE ME TO SIGN DOCUMENTS that attempt to CURTAIL my legal rights.
3) Please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN response in 7 calendar days.
**********
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via fax AND postal-mail; AS WELL AS email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, Judith.[protected]@nbc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi.ca )
Dear Sir,
1) (a) This is in response to your postal-mailed letter to me, signed by your techncial advisor Ms. Judith Germain. It was postmarked and dated 27July2011, that I have received today.
(b) Also, please refer to ALL of my relevant communications to you, INCLUDING the fax and postal-mailed signed-form and communication that I have sent to you today.
(c) This email also serves as a CONFIRMATION of the fax and postal-mail signed-form and communication that I have sent to you today.
(d) Also, refer to electronic attachment NBC04Aug2011Reply.pdf.
2) In particular, also please note what I have hand-written on the fax and postal-mailed communication sent to you today. Once again, it is noted below.
(a) "Be advised that I do NOT agree to ANY limitations that you may set which attempt to limit my legal rights to which I am entitled. Also refer to ALL of my prior communciations to your bank, in it's entirety".
(b) WHY have you INCORRECTLY noted my P.O. Box, AND then attempt to limit me with a "turn-around" ARBITRARY LIMIT of response by 27August2011, IGNORING MY LEGALLY ENTITLED REASONABLE MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS?
Is this ANOTHER of your cheap and sneaky tricks" to cancel my complaint? BECAUSE IF IT NEVER REACHES ME (with your INCORRECT addressing), THEN you "claim" that you sent it and I did not respond; When IN ACTUALITY, IT NEVER REACHES ME? Please REFER to the attached proof in the scanned attachment (as well as fax and postal-mail sent to you) today, by me.
3) Please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN response in 7 calendar days.
********
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi.ca )
Dear Sir,
This is further to my earlier email of today.
Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "explaining the mandate of the Office of the Ombudsman for clients".
My response:
(1) It is ALREADY PUBLICLY AVAILABLE at:
(a) http://www.nbc.ca/bnc/cda/productfamily/0, 2664, divId-2_langId-1_navCode-15758, 00.html
and (b) http://www.obsi.ca/UI/ComplaintProcess/Step1.aspx
WHY does that NECESSITATE A SIGNATURE FROM ME NOW WHEN I HAVE EXPOSED YOUR EVIDENCED DOUBLE STANDARDS AND HYPOCRISY?
(2) So there is NO REQUIREMENT for me to SIGN ANYTHING ESPECIALLY SINCE YOUR STAFF HAS BEEN KNOWN TO EVIDENCE A BULLY AND ARROGANT ATTITUDE, IN REFUSING TO PROVIDE ME EVEN A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE, AND THEN DODGE A SIMPLE QUESTION (as evidenced by the letter of Ms. Christine AFTER SEVERAL MONTHS) WHICH IS CONTRARY TO EVEN THE PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL JUSTICE IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY.
Please refer to ALL my provided communications that SUBSTANTIATE this LOGICAL CONCLUSION.
(3) If you want people to communicate with you in TODAYS ELECTRONIC AGE via your "secure webmailbox" THEN REMOVE your "Message (maximum 3000 characters)" from https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=Ombudsman&action=69&lang=en.
(a) Apparently, compared to your competitors, you are moving BEHIND the times. The other Canadian banks appear to be more logical, more available, more customer service oriented IN TERMS OF THEIR DEMONSTRATED ACTIONS and electronically available.
(b) You WANT A FURTHER 90 day TURN-AROUND TIME TO BUREAUCRATICALLY DEAL with A REFUSAL TO PROVIDE ME A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE (ON WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR OVER 4 MONTHS),
AND
(c) NOW TRYING TO STIFLE ME WITH YOUR 30-DAY ARBITRARILY IMPOSED DEMANDED RESPONSE TIME,
(d) GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE BACK-DATED EARLIER LETTER (as EVIDENCED by the DIFFERENCE in the ACTUAL POSTMARK and the DATE ON THE LETTER), AND
(e) IGNORING REASONABLE MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS TO WHICH I AM LEGALLY ENTITLED AS A CANADIAN CITIZEN UNDER THE CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS, EVEN THOUGH I AM A VISIBLE MINORITY.
(4) Please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN response in 7 calendar days.
******
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.caand mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi.ca )
Dear Sir,
Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "has undertaken the analysis of your request. As previously explained, a letter dated July 27, 2011 was mailed to you outlining the Ombudsman process. If you wish to prevail yourself of this process, the Office of the Ombudsman will require said letter returned duly signed."
My response:
1) Did you EVEN READ CAREFULLY ALL of the email chain sequence ENTIRELY, BEFORE RESPONDING? Or are you doing SELECTIVE READING AND IGNORING WHAT DOES NOT SUIT YOU?
2) Your statement - "as previously explained, a letter dated July 27..." is FALSE AND INCORRECT. NOWHERE IN THE EMAILED COMMUNICATION HAVE YOU MENTIONED THIS POINT EARLIER. YOU ARE IN ERROR FOR USING THE PHRASE- "As previously explained".
3) You have ALREADY done your so-called "analysis of your request". I HAVE MERELY POINTED OUT YOUR ILLOGICAL FALLACIES, BIAS AND PREJUDICE AND SKEWED ANALYSIS, AND NOT EVEN ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS I ASKED YOU, by your representative Ms. Christine, in her response earlier.
4) WHY do you NOW want this signed-statement FOR THE SAME COMPLAINT OF March2011, and NOT earlier?
5) WHY NOW?
6) Your earlier letter was POSTMARKED (and therefore posted much later) AND REACHED ME OVER 45 days AFTER you dated it. It is VERY LIKELY A TRICK YOU ARE PLAYING BY NOT ALLOWING ME A REASONABLE TIME-FRAME TO RESPOND.
7) Presently, I do not check my PO Box everyday. And I am medically unwell. Your 30 day limit, given ALL of the noted facts (herein and earlier), and my current disability and IGNORING OF IT, ALSO CONSTITUTES a VIOLATION OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS CODE BY YOU.
Also, please refer to http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/discrimination/physical_mental-eng.aspx.
8) So, your 30 day limit is NOT ACCEPTABLE AND UNREASONABLE, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU CLAIM 90 DAY turn-around time from others, and THEN EXPECT THEM TO REVERT BACK IN 30 DAYS.
9) WHY DONT YOU DO TO OTHERS AS YOU WANT THEM TO UNTO YOU?
******
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi.ca )
Dear Sir,
1) This is in response to the email from Ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca NOT SIGNED NOR WRITTEN BY ANYONE WITH NO SPECIFIC NAME OF THE WRITER, Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:28 PM. It is enclosed immediately below. It is concerning my, AS YET, UNRESOLVED COMPLAINT BY YOU that you have been LINGERING ONTO SINCE MARCH2011.
2) Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "The Bank is highly concerned with the quality of the service offered to each and every customer and therefore greatly appreciates your comments".
My response:
(a) Please refer to my email sent to you on 21July2011. As I mentioned therein: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".
(b) The fact that you have NOT satisfactorily even dealt with such a simple matter, EVIDENCES that you TALK BIG BUT ACT SMALL in matters of quality of service offered. EVIDENTLY YOU PRACTICE A VERY POR CUSTOMER SERVICE STANDARD.
3) Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "You will be receiving a formal acknowledgement of receipt by mail in the following week, explaining the mandate of the Office of the Ombudsman for clients. If you agree with its process, we ask that you sign and return the aforementioned letter so your request can be reviewed".
My response:
(a) I will SIGN NOTHING. I am NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED TO GET HEMMED IN TO SIGNING ANYTHING concering this complaint, which you have been sitting on since March2011. Please read the ENTIRE EMAIL CHAIN SEQUENCE (enclosed below) SINCE MARCH 2011.
(b) Canadian banking procedures do NOT REQUIRE me to SIGN ANY FURTHER DOCUMENTS WITH YOU concerning this matter, AND, THEREFORE, I REFUSE TO SIGN ANYTHING FURTHER.
(c) WHY DO YOU WANT SOMETHING SIGNED NOW, AND NOT EARLIER (since March2011)?
(d) I AM RAISING MY COMPLAINT WITH YOU, THE OMBUDSMAN OF THIS BANK AND I ASK FOR A SATISFACTORY WRITTEN RESOLUTION IN 7 CALENDAR DAYS.
(e) IT IS A REASONABLE TIME-FRAME, SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THIS COMPLAINT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS ALREADY SINCE MARCH 2011, WHICH IS OVER 4 MONTHS.
(f) I have NOT raised any new points. I have simply pointed out the FALSE AND INCORRECT STATEMENTS MADE by your representative who has NOT provided me a satisfactory written resolution. Neither has she answered the question I have asked.
(g) It is NOT a new complaint. And therefore, there is NO REQUIREMENT to start with another 90 days wait period. Read my complaint of earlier. And provide me the answer I have asked in it.
4) Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "Also, as e-mail is not a secure means of communication, we advise you not to use it to send your personal or banking information. Only general information should be sent by e-mail".
My response:
(a) NO specific banking information has been exchanged such as my account numbers or dollar amounts etc.
(b) Given that YOUR MULTIPLE staff have corresponded with me via email you have provided your email to the public at large on your website and business cards of your employees, and YOU EMAILED ME EARLIER, there is NO LOGICAL reason for you, to NOW state that email is not applicable here.
(c) Furthermore, this is general information, SINCE NO dollar amounts and NO specific account numbers are being referenced.
(d) SO YOUR RATIONALE IS ILLOGICAL, IRRATIONAL, AND NOT ACCEPTABLE to me.
(e) THEREFORE, I SHALL BE COMMUNICATING VIA EMAIL concerning this complaint, as is the acceptable norm with other banks for such matters.
(f) Evidently, you are simply picking on a LAME EXCUSE since it ALLOWS ME TO ATTACH THE ENTIRE SEQUENCE CHAIN OF EMAILS AND EXPOSE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARDS AND EVIDENCED HYPOCRISY.
5) Your UNNAMED representative mentioned: "Please be advised that the Ombudsman office process takes an average 90 days but rest assure that everything will be done to expedite your request".
My response:
(a) I have answered this point above. Please refer to it and read it carefully.
(b) Once again- I have NOT raised any new points. I have simply pointed out the FALSE PREMISES, SKEWED FACTS, AND INCORRECT STATEMENTS MADE by your investigator representative Ms. Christine, who has NOT provided me a satisfactory written resolution. Neither has she answered the question I have asked AT ALL. Please refer to ALL of my earlier relevant communciations enclosed below.
(c) It is NOT a new complaint. And therefore, there is NO REQUIREMENT to start with another 90 days wait period.
(d) Please Read CAREFULLY my complaint of earlier. YOU ARE MAKING A MOUNTAIN OF A MOLEHILL AND HAVE BEEN DODGING FACTS AND ACCEPTING YOUR MISTAKE INSTEAD OF RIGHTFULLY ACCEPTING YOUR ERROR AND MAKING ME WHOLE AGAIN FOR THE DAMAGES THAT I HAVE SUFFERED AS A CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR UNJUST AND INCORRECT ACTIONS.
(e) And provide me the answers I have asked in my earlier communications.
(f) I ASK FOR A SATISFACTORY WRITTEN RESOLUTION IN 7 CALENDAR DAYS. IT IS A REASONABLE TIME-FRAME, SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THIS COMPLAINT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS ALREADY SINCE MARCH 2011, WHICH IS OVER 4 MONTHS.
6) Please provide me a satisfactory WRITTEN response within 7 calendar days.
***********
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca, [protected]@bnc.ca, christine.[protected]@nbc.ca )
Dear Sir,
1) This is in response to the postal-mailed letter from Ms. Christine Lavallee, dated 01June2011 (POSTMARKED 03June2011) that I have received a few days ago.
2) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "National Bank strives to offer quality service to all its clients"
My response: The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
3) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "you then gave a few bills back to Customer Service Representative, Ms. Cheung ... you recounted yourself".
My response:
(a) I had CLEARLY spoken with Mr. Li via phone PRIOR to making the appointment that I came in-person for, that I required $20 bills that were not ripped nor torn since I use automated machines often, and some $5 bills that were not ripped nor torn.
(b) Ms. Cheung was acting under instruction from Mr. Li. I CLEARLY mentioned that I will count the money MYSELF BEFORE I sign for it, TO WHICH I AM LEGALLY ENTITLED.
(c) You are SIDE-TRACKING the issue here. This does NOT address the issue AT ALL.
(d) Please refer to my earlier email of 21March2011 enclosed below. I CLEARLY mentioned to Mr. Li: " You forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (in return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch-office-room with your and Mr. Yau s business-cards. "
(e) There was NO issue with Ms. Cheung. Mr. Li was standing there supervising Ms. Cheung. I was NOT even provided her name.
4) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "this type of request is unusual. Ms. Cheung claims she honoured it".
My response:
(a) The request may be unusual, BUT IT IS LEGALLY PERMISSIBLE AND I AM LEGALLY ENTITLED TO IT.
(b) Ms. Cheung did NOT honor it initially. It is only when I mentioned it to Mr. Li (and I have had a prior discussion on the phone with Mr. Li on this point). It is only AFTER Mr. Li told her to give me a copy of it, that Ms. Cheung provided it to me.
(c) WHY are you involving this Ms. Cheung in it anyway? She was just a customer service representative and employe ACTING UNDER INSTRUCTION of her supervisor, the customer service manager Mr. Li. I made an appointment to deal with Mr. Li, and was dealing with him all along.
(d) WHAT DO YOU EXPECT YOUR employees to say in this situation anyway? Do you expect them to say anything that will jeopardize their job? Do you expect them to put their job on the line in this recession economy, and say that they did anything incorrectly? WHAT KIND OF A BIASED INVESTIGATION IS THIS, WHERE YOU ARE RELYING ON VERBAL HEARSAY OF THE OTHER PARTY WHO IS YOUR PAID EMPLOYEE AND USING HER HEARSAY TO CONCLUDE AN INVESTIGATION?
5) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "Finally you were given Mr. Li's and Mr. Yau's business cards as requested".
My response:
(a) You are SIDE-TRACKING the issue here. This does NOT address the issue AT ALL.
(b) Please refer to my earlier email of 21March2011 enclosed below. I CLEARLY mentioned to Mr. Li: " You forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (in return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch-office-room with your and Mr. Yau s business-cards. "
6) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "your intention to demand that for future withdrawal transactions, you receive the amount requested before you sign the withdrawal slip."
My response:
(a) This is A FALSE AND INACCURATE ALLEGATION.
(b) Please refer to my emails (enclosed below in the sequence chain of emails) of 21March2011 and 26March2011.
(c) As I mentioned therein: "THEREFORE, moving forward, as I mentioned earlier (in my email to you of 21March2011):
- (i) In light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, I want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I MYSELF count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded AFTER and NOT BEFORE the ACTUAL transaction.
- (ii) This time (as in the past MULTIPLE times), it was DEMANDED by your branch representatives, that I sign the acknowledgement BEFORE I ACTUALLY RECEIVED AND COUNTED the cash.
- (iii) Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them. "
(d) I am STILL WITHIN THE BANKING PREMISES MONITORED BY YOUR SECURITY CAMERAS AND IN FRONT OF YOUR STAFF. DO YOU EXPECT ME TO RUN AWAY WITH THE MONEY?
(e) WITH THE UNEQUAL BALANCE OF POWER AND THE EVIDENCED BULLY ATTITUDE OF YOUR BANK AND STAFF, YOU ARE GETTING ME TO SIGN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT DOCUMENT THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY RECEIVED THE MONEY BEFORE I EVEN COUNT IT? THIS IS UNUSUAL. YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST BANK THAT I AM DEALING WITH. NO OTHER BANK THAT I HAVE ENCOUNTERED SO FAR, DEMANDS THAT A CUSTOMER SIGN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FOR RECEIVING CASH BEFORE ACTUALLY GIVING IT TO HIM.
7) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "Mr. Yau replied that he could not respond favourably to your request, as it was a violation of Bank procedure".
My response:
(a) You are EVIDENTLY trying to PROTECT YOUR OWN EMPLOYEE. This is a FALSE AND CONCOCTED "INVESTIGATION" with a BIASED AND PREJUDICED AND PRE_CONCEIVED CONCLUSION.
(b) You are SIDE-TRACKING THE ISSUE and NOT ANSWERING THE DIRECT POINT.
(c) Please refer to ALL my earlier emailed communication.
(d) On 21March2011, I mentioned: "Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them".
(e) On 30March2011, Mr. Yau mentoned: " your suggestion to provide us with your signature after you have received the money on withdrawal of funds from your account is not in compliance with our procedures and therefore is not acceptable".
ESSENTIALLY Mr. Yau REFUSED TO GIVE ME A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE.
(f) On 19April2011, I mentioned: "I am concerned about Mr. Yau stating to me (via email on 30March2011, enclosed below): “…. To provide…. YOUR signature …. Is NOT in compliance with OUR procedures and therefore is NOT acceptable. This is NOT consistent with CANADIAN BANKING PRACTICES ….. share with me your experience�.
- IF this is NOT consistent with CANADIAN BANKING PRACTICES then WHY am I able to get a copy of my OWN signature from OTHER CANADIAN banks and even NBC earlier? Now, after I have asked Mr. Yau, he is ARBITRARILY AND DESPOTICALLY refusing me a copy of what is being DEMANDED of me to sign. I have YET to see a bank INTERNATIONALLY that DEMANDS customers to sign documents and THEN REFUSES to give them a copy of what the customer was asked to sign! Most certainly, it does NOT even seem ethical, NOR does it respect Freedom-of-Information (to the customer himself), NOR does it seem consistent with existing CONSUMER laws and Privacy laws.
- To FORCE someone to SIGN documents AND THEN REFUSE him a COPY of his OWN SIGNATURE is a BULLY TACTIC, AND CONTRARY to the PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL JUSTICE AND DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES.
•Is YOUR employee and representative, Mr. Yau telling me that you are the ONLY bank in Canada that REFUSES customers a copy of what NBC DEMANDS them to sign, to GET the customer’s OWN MONEY?
(g) IF IT A VIOLATION OF YOUR BANK PROCEDURE, THEN WHY -
- (i) WAS I GIVEN THAT BY MR. Li IN MY LAST VISIT TO THE BANK AND PRIOR VISITS TO THE BANK?
- (ii) WHY HAVE YOU SENT IT TO ME NOW?
- (iii) IS YOUR BANK NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH LEGISLATIONS GOVERNING OTHER CANADIAN BANKS?
- (iv) WHY HAVE I BEEN ABLE TO GET IT FROM OTHER BANKS?
8) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "two copies of the requested document were given to you when the transaction was carried out on March21"
My response:
(a) That is an EFFECTIVELY FALSE AND INACCURATE STATEMENT.
(b) Giving me a FADED AND UNREADABLY FAINT COPY WHERE THE PRINT IS NOT EVEN READABLE DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN ACCEPTABLE COPY OF THE DOCUMENT.
(c) EFFECTIVELY I WAS ONLY GIVEN ONE COPY OF THE DOCUMENT, AND THAT UNWILLINGLY AFTER MUCH HARASSMENT TO ME AND AFTER HAVING TO ASK FOR IT MULTIPLE TIMES. WHY ARE YOU HARASSING ME FOR GETTING A COPY OF WHAT I AM LEGALLY ENTITLED TO? WHY DID MS. CHEUNG REFUSE TO GIVE IT TO ME INITIALLY, EVEN AFTER I HAD DISCUSSED THE MATTER ON MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS WITH Mr. Li and the other representative Mr. Amjad Mahmood?
9) Ms. Lavallee mentioned: "without your signature on the withdrawal slip, the Bank, cannot respond favourably to any withdrawal requests".
My response:
(a) You are SIDE-TRACKING THE POINT here.
(b) I have NOT asked any of your representatives for a copy of the withdrawal slip without my signature on it.
(c) WHEN did I ask any of your representatives for a copy of the withdrawal slip without my signature on it?
(d) WHAT good will it do for me to get a copy of the withdrawal slip WITHOUT my signature on it?
(e) Have you EVEN READ CAREFULLY the emails and written communication that I have sent? Or are you just doing SELECTIVE READING TO attempt to justify the INAPPROPRIATE ACTIONS OF YOUR EMPLOYEES?
(f) Your customer service representive Ms. Cheung and your branch manager Mr. Yau REFUSED TO GIVE ME A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE, WHICH PROMPTED ME TO VOICE A COMPLAINT.
(g) READ CAREFULLY ALL MY COMMUNICATIONS (enclosed below) BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH AN IRRESPONSIBLE ALLEGATION AND STATMENT CONCERNING ME.
10) MOVING FORWARD, I WANT A CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS ANSWER to my earlier asked question, to which you have EFFECTIVELY NOW RESPONDED WITH A BIASED AND CONCOCTED SO-CALLED ONE-SIDED "INVESTIGATION" AND THEN ATTEMPTING TO PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYEE Mr. Yau WHO IS IN ERROR IN REFUSING ME A COPY OF MY OWN SIGNATURE.
As I asked in March2011, once again:
"
- Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them.
- You may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters OF MY MONEY, I [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
- My request is consistent with the governing legislations’, including the Bank Act, existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (or any other customer) cannot be FORCED (and bullied) to sign documents and THEN REFUSED a copy of what you DEMAND me to sign.
11) Please provide me a satisfactory WRITTEN response within 7 calendar days.
**********
To
Ombudsman
National Bank of Canada (herein referred to as NBC)
Office of the National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients
P.O. Box 275. Montreal, Quebec H2Y 3G7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca and mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca and your LIMITED-CHARACTER web-mail-box on your website)
Dear Sir,
1) I spoke to your representative Mr. Philip Dube at approximately 1209pm on 06April2011. He asked me then to forward the email (enclosed below, from Mr. Yau) to him at ombudsman.[protected]@bnc.ca. It is enclosed below in the reverse-chronologically ordered sequence of emails.
2) I spoke to Mr. Philip Dube at approximately 4:40pm on 19April2011. He NOW asked me to forward the email (enclosed below, from Mr. Yau) to him at mediation.[protected]@bnc.ca.
3) Mr. Dube also mentioned on 19April2011 that, based on my earlier communication, I should have the answer from Mediation Department within a couple of days. Therefore, I am addressing this email to the Ombudsman.
4) Like any other customer, I am interested in a speedy resolution AND THE NET RESULT, INSTEAD OF getting bogged-down with your INTERNAL BUREAUCRATIC procedures, which do NOTHING for me EXCEPT waste my time and effort.
5) I am concerned about Mr. Dube informing me that it can take up to 90 calendar days to get an answer from NBC Ombudsman. It makes me wonder: (a) do YOU HAVE SO MANY DISSATISFIED customers, and- or (b) are you just plain DISORGANIZED AND SLOW, and-or (c) do you need to hire more staff? It also partially addressed Mr. Yau’s asking me: “share with me (which I am doing by cc-copy to him) your experience for us to improve upon�.
6) Waiting 90+ days to get an answer on WHY the branch manager, Mr. Yau is REFUSING me a copy of my OWN signature seems absurd!
7) I am concerned about Mr. Yau stating to me (via email on 30March2011, enclosed below): “…. To provide…. YOUR signature …. Is NOT in compliance with OUR procedures and therefore is NOT acceptable. This is NOT consistent with CANADIAN BANKING PRACTICES ….. share with me your experience�.
8) IF this is NOT consistent with CANADIAN BANKING PRACTICES then WHY am I able to get a copy of my OWN signature from OTHER CANADIAN banks and even NBC earlier? Now, after I have asked Mr. Yau, he is ARBITRARILY AND DESPOTICALLY refusing me a copy of what is being DEMANDED of me to sign. I have YET to see a bank INTERNATIONALLY that DEMANDS customers to sign documents and THEN REFUSES to give them a copy of what the customer was asked to sign! Most certainly, it does NOT even seem ethical, NOR does it respect Freedom-of-Information (to the customer himself), NOR does it seem consistent with existing CONSUMER laws and Privacy laws.
9) To FORCE someone to SIGN documents AND THEN REFUSE him a COPY of his OWN SIGNATURE is a BULLY TACTIC, AND CONTRARY to the PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL JUSTICE AND DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES.
•Is YOUR employee and representative, Mr. Yau telling me that you are the ONLY bank in Canada that REFUSES customers a copy of what NBC DEMANDS them to sign, to GET the customer’s OWN MONEY?
10) Now, Mr. Yau wants me to “share with him my experience for us to improve upon� (please refer to his email to me, enclosed below).
My response:
(a) While I have attempted to do so to some extent by virtue of this email (on which I am “cc�ing Mr. Yau), the bottom line is: Improving YOUR operations is YOUR problem. It is NOT my concern. I am NOT an unpaid, volunteer, guinea-pig who is legally required to WASTE his time in TRYING TO IMPROVE your levels of customer satisfaction.
(b) And given the fact, that whenever I have stopped by in the branch, Mr. Yau is NOT even available to talk to, WHAT is in it for me to SPEND MY TIME TRYING TO IMPROVE your levels of service?
(c) Absolutely NOTHING, given the fact that NBC does NOT have a monopoly and is NOT the only bank in Toronto.
11) Now Mr. Yau mentioned: “you had counted and verified the amount received was correct�.
My response:
(a) In making that statement, Mr. Yau is simply EVIDENCING that he has NOT even read my email BEFORE responding to it. He has IGNORED the ACTUAL chain and sequence of events, that I detailed to Mr. Li (who CHOSE TO IGNORE my email and did NOT even respond to it, and THEREFORE, I was FORCED to contact the branch manager, Mr. Yau).
(b) And this is YOUR CUSTOMER�SERVICE manager, Mr. Li?
(c) So WHAT does that tell you about the LEVEL of CUSTOMER service to a client (i.e. me), who locks up MINIMALLY $5000 EACH MONTH, in a chequing account that pays virtually NO interest with you in YOUR PREMIUM “Virtuoso� account (so that YOU can turn�around AND USE MY money to lend to ANOTHER CLIENT at a MUCH HIGHER INTEREST)?
(d) I wonder what happens with the customer who has a BASIC chequing account (where the client locks-up LESSER money EACH MONTH) with you!
(e) Now, $5 is NOT going to kill me. But it DOES tell me a LOT about your level of EVIDENCED honesty. And given that the best advertisement ANY business (or bank, for that matter) carries is BY WORD OF MOUTH (irrespective of how much you spend on COSTLY advertising), WHAT do YOU think I have to tell people I KNOW about NBC? WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE IN MY SHOES?
(f) Does the above mentioned comments ANSWER Mr. Yau’s asking me “share with me your experience for us to improve upon�?
(g) WHY should I want to SPEND MY TIME making an appointment with a branch manager who is NOT even available for me (whenever I have gone to the branch), and that too BEFORE 4pm on a weekday, to verbally discuss, WHEN the same branch manager (and his customer service manager) CHOOSE TO IGNORE my WRITTEN CONCERNS, UNTIL I escalate the concern via a “cc� to the Bank President?
12) Moving forward, please provide me a SATISFACTORY WRITTEN RESPONSE (via email and postal-mail to my, , Toronto address) to my concerns that I have ALREADY put in writing earlier. You may easily refer to the SELF-EXPLANATORY sequence-chain of emails below (INSTEAD of me having to REPEAT the same issue that I have TWICE also discussed with Mr. Dube verbally, on 06April2011 and 19April2011).
· And I have made it clear in this email, that I am NOT satisfied with Mr. Yau’s response.
13) Please provide me a WRITTEN response AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, and NO later than 90 calendar days from 06April2011 (the date that I discussed the matter with your NBC Ombudsman representative Mr. Dube at 1209pm).
************
To
Mr. Peter Yau, Branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via reply-email to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager
peter.[protected]@bnc.ca, with a
cc-copy to (1) Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments (OBSI)
via [protected]@obsi.ca,
(2) Mr. Louis Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Bank,
President office via email to [protected]@bnc.ca and webmail-box at https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=President&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca )
(4) National Bank Financial Group Ombudsman for clients via https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=Ombudsman&action=69&lang=en
(5) anne-marie.[protected]@priv.gc.ca
Dear Sir,
(1) Further to my earlier communication to you of today, also please refer to your professed:
(a) 5.2 sub-section Compliance with the Law, and
(b) 5.1 sub-section Respect for Clients.
publicly posted at : http://www.nbc.ca/bnc/files/bncpdf/en/2/voluntary_codes.pdf-
************
To
Mr. Peter Yau, Branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via reply-email to to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager peter.[protected]@bnc.ca, with a cc-copy to (1) Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments (OBSI) via [protected]@obsi.ca,
(2) Mr. Louis Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Bank,
President office via email to [protected]@bnc.ca and webmail-box at https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=President&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca )
Dear Mr. Yau,
1) This is in response to your email to me, sent 25March2011, a copy of which is enclosed below.
2) Attached herewith is a response that I received on 21March2011 from your Email: President that stated- You can expect an answer from the National Bank WITHIN 24 HOURS. A copy of it is attached as NBCPresident21Marc2011Email.jpg.
3) I did NOT receive your response until 25March2011, which is 7 calendar days later, and most certainly NOT within the stipulated WITHIN 24 HOURS mentioned by your Email: President.
4) You mentioned: to meeting with me ... I am suggesting either in the morning or in the afternoon on March 30, 2011
5) Presently, 30March2011 (before your branch closes at 430pm) does NOT suit me.
6) For an amount of $5, FOR WHICH I HAVE ALREADY PROVIDED YOU ALL THE RELEVANT DETAILS IN WRITING,
(a) WHAT do you expect to feasibly and conceivably happen when it is an issue of your customer- service manager, Mr. Li s word against mine?
(b) What is going to be achieved at this meeting instead of needless arguing back-and-forth, with Mr. Li possibly stating that I made an error etc.?
(c) Net result: possibly NOTHING EXCEPT wasted time for me.
(7) THEREFORE, moving forward, as I mentioned earlier (in my email to you of 21March2011):
(a) In light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, I want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I MYSELF count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded AFTER and NOT BEFORE the ACTUAL transaction.
(b) This time (as in the past MULTIPLE times), it was DEMANDED by your branch representatives, that I sign the acknowledgement BEFORE I ACTUALLY RECEIVED AND COUNTED the cash.
(c) Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them.
(8) You may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters OF MY MONEY, I [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
(9) My request is consistent with the governing legislations’, including the Bank Act, existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (or any other customer) cannot be FORCED (and bullied) to sign documents and THEN REFUSED a copy of what you DEMAND me to sign.
(10) Please provide me a satisfactory WRITTEN response (via email to this email address and my postal-mail) within 7 calendar days of today, including whether you will provide me a copy of what I am legally entitled to, as per the law, and the Bank Act, i.e.
(a) sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I MYSELF count and receive the cash;
(b) a copy of my own signature, i.e. whatever documents you demand I sign, (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums)
************
To
Mr. Peter Yau,
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via email to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager peter.[protected]@bnc.ca, with a cc-copy to johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca and
cc: Mr. Louis Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Bank,
President office via webmail-box at https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=President&action=69&lang=en)
Dear Mr. Yau,
1) In light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, I want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I MYSELF count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded AFTER and NOT BEFORE the ACTUAL transaction.
2) This time (as in the past MULTIPLE times), it was DEMANDED by your branch representatives, that I sign the acknowledgement BEFORE I ACTUALLY RECEIVED AND COUNTED the cash.
3) Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them.
4) Please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
**********
To
Mr. Johnson Li, Customer Service Manager
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via email to johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca with a cc-copy to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager peter.[protected]@bnc.ca)
Dear Mr. Li,
(1) You forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (in return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch-office-room with your and Mr. Yau s business-cards.
(2) Therefore, I actually got $1995 cash after I was told to sign the acknowledgement for having withdrawn $2000 cash today.
(3) I did not realize it either, until after I left the branch and it was closed for the day.
(4) Can you credit this $5 into my chequing-account?
(5) Please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
(6) Thanking you in anticipation of your cooperation, and I apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused to you.
************
To
Mr. Peter Yau, Branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager National Bank of Canada 4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104 Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via reply-email to to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager
peter.[protected]@bnc.ca, with a
cc-copy to (1) Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments (OBSI) via [protected]@obsi.ca,
(2) Mr. Louis Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Bank, President office via email to [protected]@bnc.ca and webmail-box at https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=President&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca )
Dear Mr. Yau, 1) This is in response to your email to me, sent 25March2011, a copy of which is enclosed below.
2) Attached herewith is a response that I received on 21March2011 from your
Email: President that stated- You can expect an answer from the National Bank
WITHIN 24 HOURS. A copy of it is attached as NBCPresident21Marc2011Email.jpg.
3) I did NOT receive your response until 25March2011, which is 7 calendar days later,
and most certainly NOT within the stipulated WITHIN 24 HOURS mentioned by your
Email: President.
4) You mentioned: to meeting with me ... I am suggesting either in the morning or in the
afternoon on March 30, 2011
5) Presently, 30March2011 (before your branch closes at 430pm) does NOT suit me.
6) For an amount of $5, FOR WHICH I HAVE ALREADY PROVIDED YOU ALL THE
RELEVANT DETAILS IN WRITING,
(a) WHAT do you expect to feasibly and conceivably happen when it is an issue of your
customer- service manager, Mr. Li s word against mine?
(b) What is going to be achieved at this meeting instead of needless arguing back-and-forth,
with Mr. Li possibly stating that I made an error etc.?
(c) Net result: possibly NOTHING EXCEPT wasted time for me.
(7) THEREFORE, moving forward, as I mentioned earlier
(in my email to you of 21March2011):
(a) In light of the incident occurence detailed below, for the future, I want to exercise my
legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I
MYSELF count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an
acknowledgement should be demanded AFTER and NOT BEFORE the ACTUAL
transaction. (b) This time (as in the past MULTIPLE times), it was DEMANDED by your branch representatives, that I sign the acknowledgement BEFORE I ACTUALLY RECEIVED AND COUNTED the cash.
(c) Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature
(INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to receive them.
(8) You may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters OF MY
MONEY, I [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
(9) My request is consistent with the governing legilslations, including the Bank Act,
existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (or any other customer) cannot be FORCED (and bullied) to sign documents and THEN
REFUSED a copy of what you DEMAND me to sign.
************
To
Mr. Peter Yau,
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via email to to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager peter.[protected]@bnc.ca, with a cc-copy to johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca and
cc: Mr. Louis Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Bank,
President office via webmail-box at https://www.nbc.ca/WebInfoWeb/DispatchRequest?aliasDispatcher=sendMailCommunicationEx&emailAlias=President&action=69&lang=en)
Dear Mr. Yau,
1) In light of the incident occurence detailed below, for the future, I want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash-withdrawal AFTER I MYSELF count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded AFTER and NOT BEFORE the ACTUAL transaction.
2) This time (as in the past MULTIPLE times), it was DEMANDED by your branch representatives, that I sign the acknowledgement BEFORE I ACTUALLY RECEIVED AND COUNTED the cash.
3) Furthermore, I understand that I am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (INCLUDING ANY referenced addendums) and THEREFORE, I would like to recieve them.
4) Please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
*********
To
Mr. Johnson Li, Customer Service Manager
National Bank of Canada
4040 Finch Avenue East, Unit 104
Scarborough, ONT M1S 4VS
(Delivered via email to johnson.[protected]@bnc.ca with a cc-copy to branch-manager, i.e. sales and service manager peter.[protected]@bnc.ca)
Dear Mr. Li,
(1) You forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (in return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch-office-room with your and Mr. Yau s business-cards.
(2) Therefore, I actually got $1995 cash after I was told to sign the acknowlegement for having withdrawn $2000 cash today.
(3) I did not realize it either, until after I left the branch and it was closed for the day.
(4) Can you credit this $5 into my chequing-account?
(5) Please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
(6) Thanking you in anticipation of your cooperation, and I apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused to you.
*********
Refusal to give copy of signature
Subject: i want to file a complaint against national bank of canada for:
· ignoring my legally entitled reasonable medical accommodations;
· ignoring and violating the human rights code to which i am legally entitled as a canadian citizen under the charter of human rights and freedoms, even though i am a visible minority;
· refusing to provide me a copy of my own signature, after demanding that i sign documents;
· attempting to limit my legal rights to which i am entitled by his evidenced bully tactics to force me to sign documents that attempt to curtail my legal rights;
· falsely and incorrectly alleging that i "do not agree to terms & conditions stated";
· using false and concocted grounds and misrepresentation of fact to cancel my valid complaint.
· grounds of discrimination and harassment to me and misuse of it’s vested authority, and vindictive reprisal to me, by it’s evidenced unjust actions.
· i ask to be made whole again.
Dear sir,
1) on 17august2011, national bank of canada ombudsman representative mr. Robert calcagni has falsely and incorrecty alleged: "you do not agree to terms & conditions stated", and that "office of ombudsman will not be undertaking any investigation. . . Will not be responding to any further communication in this regard".
2) please refer to all of the self - explanatory sequence of emails below, in reverse chronological order, as well as the self - explanatory attachments, i. E. Nbc04aug2011reply. Pdf and nbc17aug2011refusal. Jpg.
3) i wish to file a complaint against national bank of canada for:
(A) refusing to provide me a copy of my own signature, after demanding that i sign documents.
- it is my understanding that i am entitled to a copy of my own signature, and and documents that i am required to sign, including any referenced addendums;
(B) attempting to limit my legal rights to which i am entitled by his evidenced bully tactics to force me to sign documents that attempt to curtail my legal rights;
(C) falsely and incorrectly alleging that i "do not agree to terms & conditions stated";
(D) using false and concocted grounds and misrepresentation of fact to cancel my valid complaint;
(E) misuse of vested authority and unfair means to cancel my valid complaint by sending me communication to an incorrect address and then attempt to limit me with a "turn - around" arbitrary limit of response from me by 27august2011,
- ignoring my legally entitled reasonable medical accommodations, after i clearly informed him that i am medically unwell and require a reasonable length of time, which never did exceed his "turn - around" time (Even though he and his staff are medically unwell) . This also constitutes ignoring and violating the human rights code to which i am legally entitled as a canadian citizen under the charter of human rights and freedoms, even though i am a visible minority.
As i stated in my earlier emailed communication to him (Refer below) :
- (I) "want a further 90 day turn - around time to bureaucratically deal with a refusal to provide me a copy of my own signature (On which you have been sitting for over 4 months) , now trying to stifle me with your 30 - day arbitrarily imposed demanded response time ";
- (Ii) "given that you have back - dated earlier letter (As evidenced by the difference in the actual postmark and the date on the letter) , and";
- (Iii) "ignoring reasonable medical accommodations to which i am legally entitled as a canadian citizen under the charter of human rights and freedoms, even though i am a visible minority”; “false and incorrect. Nowhere in the emailed communication have you mentioned this point earlier. You are in error for using the phrase - "as previously explained". "
- (Iv) "presently, i do not check my po box everyday. And i am medically unwell. Your 30 day limit, given all of the noted facts (Herein and earlier) , and my current disability and ignoring of it, also constitutes a violation of the human rights code by you"
(F) in refusing to provide me even a copy of my own signature, and then dodge a simple question (As evidenced by the letter of ms. Christine after several months) which is contrary to even the principles of natural justice in a democratic society.
As i stated in my earlier emailed communication to him (Refer below) :
- (I) "you have already done your so - called "analysis of your request". I have merely pointed out your illogical fallacies, bias and prejudice and skewed analysis, and not even answering the questions i asked you, by your representative ms. Christine, in her response earlier";
- (Ii) "why do you now want this signed - statement for the same complaint of march2011, and not earlier?
Your earlier letter was postmarked (And therefore posted much later) and reached me over 45 days after you dated it. It is very likely a trick you are playing by not allowing me a reasonable time - frame to respond";
(G) • grounds of discrimination and harassment to me and misuse of it’s vested authority, and vindictive reprisal to me, by it’s evidenced unjust actions.
• i ask to be made whole again.
4) please provide me a satisfactory written response in 7 calendar days. Please respond to both my emails and via postal - mail. This is because of my current medical limitations (That i have referred to above) and any possible errors with email servers, which have been known to occur in the past.
***********
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via fax and postal - mail; as well as email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, judith. [protected]@nbc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi. Ca)
Dear sir,
1) (A) this is in response to your postal - mailed letter to me, signed by your deputy ombudsman robert calcagni. It was postmarked and dated 08august2011, that i have received today.
(B) also, please refer to all of my relevant communications to you, including the fax and postal - mailed signed - form and communication that i have sent to you today, and the attachment to this email.
(C) this email also serves as a confirmation of the fax and postal - mail signed - form and communication that i have sent to you now.
(D) please note that my earlier signed document stands unchanged. Also, refer to electronic attachment nbc04aug2011reply. Pdf. In particular, also please note what i have hand - written on the fax and postal - mailed communication sent to you today. Once again, it is noted below.
(E) i have clearly stated: "be advised that i do not agree to any limitations that you may set which attempt to limit my legal rights to which i am entitled. Also refer to all of my prior communications to your bank, in it's entirety".
(F) therefore, you are clearly falsifying fact by alleging: “that you stated on this document that you are not in agreement with its outlined terms & conditions”.
(G) please do not falsify fact by misrepresenting what i have stated clearly. You cannot and may not limit my legal rights to which i am entitled by your evidenced bully tactics to force me to sign documents that attempt to curtail my legal rights.
(H) therefore, you are clearly using false and concocted grounds and misrepresentation of fact to cancel my complaint. You cannot and may not limit my legal rights to which i am entitled by your evidenced bully tactics to force me to sign documents that attempt to curtail my legal rights.
3) please provide me a satisfactory written response in 7 calendar days.
**********
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via fax and postal - mail; as well as email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, judith. [protected]@nbc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi. Ca)
Dear sir,
1) (A) this is in response to your postal - mailed letter to me, signed by your techncial advisor ms. Judith germain. It was postmarked and dated 27july2011, that i have received today.
(B) also, please refer to all of my relevant communications to you, including the fax and postal - mailed signed - form and communication that i have sent to you today.
(C) this email also serves as a confirmation of the fax and postal - mail signed - form and communication that i have sent to you today.
(D) also, refer to electronic attachment nbc04aug2011reply. Pdf.
2) in particular, also please note what i have hand - written on the fax and postal - mailed communication sent to you today. Once again, it is noted below.
(A) "be advised that i do not agree to any limitations that you may set which attempt to limit my legal rights to which i am entitled. Also refer to all of my prior communciations to your bank, in it's entirety".
(B) why have you incorrectly noted my p. O. Box, and then attempt to limit me with a "turn - around" arbitrary limit of response by 27august2011, ignoring my legally entitled reasonable medical accommodations?
Is this another of your cheap and sneaky tricks" to cancel my complaint? Because if it never reaches me (With your incorrect addressing) , then you "claim" that you sent it and i did not respond; when in actuality, it never reaches me? Please refer to the attached proof in the scanned attachment (As well as fax and postal - mail sent to you) today, by me.
3) please provide me a satisfactory written response in 7 calendar days.
********
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi. Ca)
Dear sir,
This is further to my earlier email of today.
Your unnamed representative mentioned: "explaining the mandate of the office of the ombudsman for clients".
My response:
(1) it is already publicly available at:
(A) http: / / www. Nbc. Ca / bnc / cda / productfamily / 0, 2664, divid - 2_langid - 1_navcode - 15758, 00. Html
And (B) http: / / www. Obsi. Ca / ui / complaintprocess / step1. Aspx
Why does that necessitate a signature from me now when i have exposed your evidenced double standards and hypocrisy?
(2) so there is no requirement for me to sign anything especially since your staff has been known to evidence a bully and arrogant attitude, in refusing to provide me even a copy of my own signature, and then dodge a simple question (As evidenced by the letter of ms. Christine after several months) which is contrary to even the principles of natural justice in a democratic society.
Please refer to all my provided communications that substantiate this logical conclusion.
(3) if you want people to communicate with you in todays electronic age via your "secure webmailbox" then remove your "message (Maximum 3000 characters) " from https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=ombudsman&action=69&lang=en.
(A) apparently, compared to your competitors, you are moving behind the times. The other canadian banks appear to be more logical, more available, more customer service oriented in terms of their demonstrated actions and electronically available.
(B) you want a further 90 day turn - around time to bureaucratically deal with a refusal to provide me a copy of my own signature (On which you have been sitting for over 4 months) ,
And
(C) now trying to stifle me with your 30 - day arbitrarily imposed demanded response time,
(D) given that you have back - dated earlier letter (As evidenced by the difference in the actual postmark and the date on the letter) , and
(E) ignoring reasonable medical accommodations to which i am legally entitled as a canadian citizen under the charter of human rights and freedoms, even though i am a visible minority.
(4) please provide me a satisfactory written response in 7 calendar days.
******
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Caand mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi. Ca)
Dear sir,
Your unnamed representative mentioned: "has undertaken the analysis of your request. As previously explained, a letter dated july 27, 2011 was mailed to you outlining the ombudsman process. If you wish to prevail yourself of this process, the office of the ombudsman will require said letter returned duly signed. "
My response:
1) did you even read carefully all of the email chain sequence entirely, before responding? Or are you doing selective reading and ignoring what does not suit you?
2) your statement - "as previously explained, a letter dated july 27. . . " is false and incorrect. Nowhere in the emailed communication have you mentioned this point earlier. You are in error for using the phrase - "as previously explained".
3) you have already done your so - called "analysis of your request". I have merely pointed out your illogical fallacies, bias and prejudice and skewed analysis, and not even answering the questions i asked you, by your representative ms. Christine, in her response earlier.
4) why do you now want this signed - statement for the same complaint of march2011, and not earlier?
5) why now?
6) your earlier letter was postmarked (And therefore posted much later) and reached me over 45 days after you dated it. It is very likely a trick you are playing by not allowing me a reasonable time - frame to respond.
7) presently, i do not check my po box everyday. And i am medically unwell. Your 30 day limit, given all of the noted facts (Herein and earlier) , and my current disability and ignoring of it, also constitutes a violation of the human rights code by you.
Also, please refer to http: / / www. Chrc - ccdp. Ca / discrimination / physical_mental - eng. Aspx.
8) so, your 30 day limit is not acceptable and unreasonable, especially since you claim 90 day turn - around time from others, and then expect them to revert back in 30 days.
9) why dont you do to others as you want them to unto you?
******
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca with a "cc" to [protected]@obsi. Ca)
Dear sir,
1) this is in response to the email from ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca not signed nor written by anyone with no specific name of the writer, sent: monday, july 25, 2011 4:28 pm. It is enclosed immediately below. It is concerning my, as yet, unresolved complaint by you that you have been lingering onto since march2011.
2) your unnamed representative mentioned: "the bank is highly concerned with the quality of the service offered to each and every customer and therefore greatly appreciates your comments".
My response:
(A) please refer to my email sent to you on 21july2011. As i mentioned therein: "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".
(B) the fact that you have not satisfactorily even dealt with such a simple matter, evidences that you talk big but act small in matters of quality of service offered. Evidently you practice a very por customer service standard.
3) your unnamed representative mentioned: "you will be receiving a formal acknowledgement of receipt by mail in the following week, explaining the mandate of the office of the ombudsman for clients. If you agree with its process, we ask that you sign and return the aforementioned letter so your request can be reviewed".
My response:
(A) i will sign nothing. I am not legally required to get hemmed in to signing anything concering this complaint, which you have been sitting on since march2011. Please read the entire email chain sequence (Enclosed below) since march 2011.
(B) canadian banking procedures do not require me to sign any further documents with you concerning this matter, and, therefore, i refuse to sign anything further.
(C) why do you want something signed now, and not earlier (Since march2011) ?
(D) i am raising my complaint with you, the ombudsman of this bank and i ask for a satisfactory written resolution in 7 calendar days.
(E) it is a reasonable time - frame, since you have been sitting on this complaint for several months already since march 2011, which is over 4 months.
(F) i have not raised any new points. I have simply pointed out the false and incorrect statements made by your representative who has not provided me a satisfactory written resolution. Neither has she answered the question i have asked.
(G) it is not a new complaint. And therefore, there is no requirement to start with another 90 days wait period. Read my complaint of earlier. And provide me the answer i have asked in it.
4) your unnamed representative mentioned: "also, as e - mail is not a secure means of communication, we advise you not to use it to send your personal or banking information. Only general information should be sent by e - mail".
My response:
(A) no specific banking information has been exchanged such as my account numbers or dollar amounts etc.
(B) given that your multiple staff have corresponded with me via email you have provided your email to the public at large on your website and business cards of your employees, and you emailed me earlier, there is no logical reason for you, to now state that email is not applicable here.
(C) furthermore, this is general information, since no dollar amounts and no specific account numbers are being referenced.
(D) so your rationale is illogical, irrational, and not acceptable to me.
(E) therefore, i shall be communicating via email concerning this complaint, as is the acceptable norm with other banks for such matters.
(F) evidently, you are simply picking on a lame excuse since it allows me to attach the entire sequence chain of emails and expose your double standards and evidenced hypocrisy.
5) your unnamed representative mentioned: "please be advised that the ombudsman office process takes an average 90 days but rest assure that everything will be done to expedite your request".
My response:
(A) i have answered this point above. Please refer to it and read it carefully.
(B) once again - i have not raised any new points. I have simply pointed out the false premises, skewed facts, and incorrect statements made by your investigator representative ms. Christine, who has not provided me a satisfactory written resolution. Neither has she answered the question i have asked at all. Please refer to all of my earlier relevant communciations enclosed below.
(C) it is not a new complaint. And therefore, there is no requirement to start with another 90 days wait period.
(D) please read carefully my complaint of earlier. You are making a mountain of a molehill and have been dodging facts and accepting your mistake instead of rightfully accepting your error and making me whole again for the damages that i have suffered as a consequence of your unjust and incorrect actions.
(E) and provide me the answers i have asked in my earlier communications.
(F) i ask for a satisfactory written resolution in 7 calendar days. It is a reasonable time - frame, since you have been sitting on this complaint for several months already since march 2011, which is over 4 months.
6) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days.
***********
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca, [protected]@bnc. Ca, christine. [protected]@nbc. Ca)
Dear sir,
1) this is in response to the postal - mailed letter from ms. Christine lavallee, dated 01june2011 (Postmarked 03june2011) that i have received a few days ago.
2) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "national bank strives to offer quality service to all its clients"
My response: the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
3) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "you then gave a few bills back to customer service representative, ms. Cheung. . . You recounted yourself".
My response:
(A) i had clearly spoken with mr. Li via phone prior to making the appointment that i came in - person for, that i required $20 bills that were not ripped nor torn since i use automated machines often, and some $5 bills that were not ripped nor torn.
(B) ms. Cheung was acting under instruction from mr. Li. I clearly mentioned that i will count the money myself before i sign for it, to which i am legally entitled.
(C) you are side - tracking the issue here. This does not address the issue at all.
(D) please refer to my earlier email of 21march2011 enclosed below. I clearly mentioned to mr. Li: " you forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (In return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch - office - room with your and mr. Yau s business - cards. "
(E) there was no issue with ms. Cheung. Mr. Li was standing there supervising ms. Cheung. I was not even provided her name.
4) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "this type of request is unusual. Ms. Cheung claims she honoured it".
My response:
(A) the request may be unusual, but it is legally permissible and i am legally entitled to it.
(B) ms. Cheung did not honor it initially. It is only when i mentioned it to mr. Li (And i have had a prior discussion on the phone with mr. Li on this point) . It is only after mr. Li told her to give me a copy of it, that ms. Cheung provided it to me.
(C) why are you involving this ms. Cheung in it anyway? She was just a customer service representative and employe acting under instruction of her supervisor, the customer service manager mr. Li. I made an appointment to deal with mr. Li, and was dealing with him all along.
(D) what do you expect your employees to say in this situation anyway? Do you expect them to say anything that will jeopardize their job? Do you expect them to put their job on the line in this recession economy, and say that they did anything incorrectly? What kind of a biased investigation is this, where you are relying on verbal hearsay of the other party who is your paid employee and using her hearsay to conclude an investigation?
5) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "finally you were given mr. Li's and mr. Yau's business cards as requested".
My response:
(A) you are side - tracking the issue here. This does not address the issue at all.
(B) please refer to my earlier email of 21march2011 enclosed below. I clearly mentioned to mr. Li: " you forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (In return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch - office - room with your and mr. Yau s business - cards. "
6) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "your intention to demand that for future withdrawal transactions, you receive the amount requested before you sign the withdrawal slip. "
My response:
(A) this is a false and inaccurate allegation.
(B) please refer to my emails (Enclosed below in the sequence chain of emails) of 21march2011 and 26march2011.
(C) as i mentioned therein: "therefore, moving forward, as i mentioned earlier (In my email to you of 21march2011) :
- (I) in light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, i want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i myself count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded after and not before the actual transaction.
- (Ii) this time (As in the past multiple times) , it was demanded by your branch representatives, that i sign the acknowledgement before i actually received and counted the cash.
- (Iii) furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them. "
(D) i am still within the banking premises monitored by your security cameras and in front of your staff. Do you expect me to run away with the money?
(E) with the unequal balance of power and the evidenced bully attitude of your bank and staff, you are getting me to sign an acknowledgement document that i have actually received the money before i even count it? This is unusual. You are not the first bank that i am dealing with. No other bank that i have encountered so far, demands that a customer sign an acknowledgement for receiving cash before actually giving it to him.
7) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "mr. Yau replied that he could not respond favourably to your request, as it was a violation of bank procedure".
My response:
(A) you are evidently trying to protect your own employee. This is a false and concocted "investigation" with a biased and prejudiced and pre_conceived conclusion.
(B) you are side - tracking the issue and not answering the direct point.
(C) please refer to all my earlier emailed communication.
(D) on 21march2011, i mentioned: "furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them".
(E) on 30march2011, mr. Yau mentoned: " your suggestion to provide us with your signature after you have received the money on withdrawal of funds from your account is not in compliance with our procedures and therefore is not acceptable".
Essentially mr. Yau refused to give me a copy of my own signature.
(F) on 19april2011, i mentioned: "i am concerned about mr. Yau stating to me (Via email on 30march2011, enclosed below) : “…. To provide…. Your signature …. Is not in compliance with our procedures and therefore is not acceptable. This is not consistent with canadian banking practices …. . Share with me your experience�.
- if this is not consistent with canadian banking practices then why am i able to get a copy of my own signature from other canadian banks and even nbc earlier? Now, after i have asked mr. Yau, he is arbitrarily and despotically refusing me a copy of what is being demanded of me to sign. I have yet to see a bank internationally that demands customers to sign documents and then refuses to give them a copy of what the customer was asked to sign! Most certainly, it does not even seem ethical, nor does it respect freedom - of - information (To the customer himself) , nor does it seem consistent with existing consumer laws and privacy laws.
- to force someone to sign documents and then refuse him a copy of his own signature is a bully tactic, and contrary to the principles of natural justice and democratic principles.
•is your employee and representative, mr. Yau telling me that you are the only bank in canada that refuses customers a copy of what nbc demands them to sign, to get the customer’s own money?
(G) if it a violation of your bank procedure, then why -
- (I) was i given that by mr. Li in my last visit to the bank and prior visits to the bank?
- (Ii) why have you sent it to me now?
- (Iii) is your bank not in compliance with legislations governing other canadian banks?
- (Iv) why have i been able to get it from other banks?
8) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "two copies of the requested document were given to you when the transaction was carried out on march21"
My response:
(A) that is an effectively false and inaccurate statement.
(B) giving me a faded and unreadably faint copy where the print is not even readable does not constitute an acceptable copy of the document.
(C) effectively i was only given one copy of the document, and that unwillingly after much harassment to me and after having to ask for it multiple times. Why are you harassing me for getting a copy of what i am legally entitled to? Why did ms. Cheung refuse to give it to me initially, even after i had discussed the matter on multiple occassions with mr. Li and the other representative mr. Amjad mahmood?
9) ms. Lavallee mentioned: "without your signature on the withdrawal slip, the bank, cannot respond favourably to any withdrawal requests".
My response:
(A) you are side - tracking the point here.
(B) i have not asked any of your representatives for a copy of the withdrawal slip without my signature on it.
(C) when did i ask any of your representatives for a copy of the withdrawal slip without my signature on it?
(D) what good will it do for me to get a copy of the withdrawal slip without my signature on it?
(E) have you even read carefully the emails and written communication that i have sent? Or are you just doing selective reading to attempt to justify the inappropriate actions of your employees?
(F) your customer service representive ms. Cheung and your branch manager mr. Yau refused to give me a copy of my own signature, which prompted me to voice a complaint.
(G) read carefully all my communications (Enclosed below) before you make such an irresponsible allegation and statment concerning me.
10) moving forward, i want a clear and unambiguous answer to my earlier asked question, to which you have effectively now responded with a biased and concocted so - called one - sided "investigation" and then attempting to protect your employee mr. Yau who is in error in refusing me a copy of my own signature.
As i asked in march2011, once again:
"
- furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them.
- you may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters of my money, i [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
- my request is consistent with the governing legislations’, including the bank act, existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (Or any other customer) cannot be forced (And bullied) to sign documents and then refused a copy of what you demand me to sign.
11) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days.
**********
To
Ombudsman
National bank of canada (Herein referred to as nbc)
Office of the national bank financial group ombudsman for clients
P. O. Box 275. Montreal, quebec h2y 3g7
(Delivered via email to ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca and mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca and your limited - character web - mail - box on your website)
Dear sir,
1) i spoke to your representative mr. Philip dube at approximately 1209pm on 06april2011. He asked me then to forward the email (Enclosed below, from mr. Yau) to him at ombudsman. [protected]@bnc. Ca. It is enclosed below in the reverse - chronologically ordered sequence of emails.
2) i spoke to mr. Philip dube at approximately 4:40pm on 19april2011. He now asked me to forward the email (Enclosed below, from mr. Yau) to him at mediation. [protected]@bnc. Ca.
3) mr. Dube also mentioned on 19april2011 that, based on my earlier communication, i should have the answer from mediation department within a couple of days. Therefore, i am addressing this email to the ombudsman.
4) like any other customer, i am interested in a speedy resolution and the net result, instead of getting bogged - down with your internal bureaucratic procedures, which do nothing for me except waste my time and effort.
5) i am concerned about mr. Dube informing me that it can take up to 90 calendar days to get an answer from nbc ombudsman. It makes me wonder: (A) do you have so many dissatisfied customers, and - or (B) are you just plain disorganized and slow, and - or (C) do you need to hire more staff? It also partially addressed mr. Yau’s asking me: “share with me (Which i am doing by cc - copy to him) your experience for us to improve upon�.
6) waiting 90+ days to get an answer on why the branch manager, mr. Yau is refusing me a copy of my own signature seems absurd!
7) i am concerned about mr. Yau stating to me (Via email on 30march2011, enclosed below) : “…. To provide…. Your signature …. Is not in compliance with our procedures and therefore is not acceptable. This is not consistent with canadian banking practices …. . Share with me your experience�.
8) if this is not consistent with canadian banking practices then why am i able to get a copy of my own signature from other canadian banks and even nbc earlier? Now, after i have asked mr. Yau, he is arbitrarily and despotically refusing me a copy of what is being demanded of me to sign. I have yet to see a bank internationally that demands customers to sign documents and then refuses to give them a copy of what the customer was asked to sign! Most certainly, it does not even seem ethical, nor does it respect freedom - of - information (To the customer himself) , nor does it seem consistent with existing consumer laws and privacy laws.
9) to force someone to sign documents and then refuse him a copy of his own signature is a bully tactic, and contrary to the principles of natural justice and democratic principles.
•is your employee and representative, mr. Yau telling me that you are the only bank in canada that refuses customers a copy of what nbc demands them to sign, to get the customer’s own money?
10) now, mr. Yau wants me to “share with him my experience for us to improve upon� (Please refer to his email to me, enclosed below) .
My response:
(A) while i have attempted to do so to some extent by virtue of this email (On which i am “cc�ing mr. Yau) , the bottom line is: improving your operations is your problem. It is not my concern. I am not an unpaid, volunteer, guinea - pig who is legally required to waste his time in trying to improve your levels of customer satisfaction.
(B) and given the fact, that whenever i have stopped by in the branch, mr. Yau is not even available to talk to, what is in it for me to spend my time trying to improve your levels of service?
(C) absolutely nothing, given the fact that nbc does not have a monopoly and is not the only bank in toronto.
11) now mr. Yau mentioned: “you had counted and verified the amount received was correct�.
My response:
(A) in making that statement, mr. Yau is simply evidencing that he has not even read my email before responding to it. He has ignored the actual chain and sequence of events, that i detailed to mr. Li (Who chose to ignore my email and did not even respond to it, and therefore, i was forced to contact the branch manager, mr. Yau) .
(B) and this is your customer�service manager, mr. Li?
(C) so what does that tell you about the level of customer service to a client (I. E. Me) , who locks up minimally $5000 each month, in a chequing account that pays virtually no interest with you in your premium “virtuoso� account (So that you can turn�around and use my money to lend to another client at a much higher interest) ?
(D) i wonder what happens with the customer who has a basic chequing account (Where the client locks - up lesser money each month) with you!
(E) now, $5 is not going to kill me. But it does tell me a lot about your level of evidenced honesty. And given that the best advertisement any business (Or bank, for that matter) carries is by word of mouth (Irrespective of how much you spend on costly advertising) , what do you think i have to tell people i know about nbc? What would you do if you were in my shoes?
(F) does the above mentioned comments answer mr. Yau’s asking me “share with me your experience for us to improve upon�?
(G) why should i want to spend my time making an appointment with a branch manager who is not even available for me (Whenever i have gone to the branch) , and that too before 4pm on a weekday, to verbally discuss, when the same branch manager (And his customer service manager) choose to ignore my written concerns, until i escalate the concern via a “cc� to the bank president?
12) moving forward, please provide me a satisfactory written response (Via email and postal - mail to my po box 93534, rpo shoppers world, toronto m4c 5r4 address) to my concerns that i have already put in writing earlier. You may easily refer to the self - explanatory sequence - chain of emails below (Instead of me having to repeat the same issue that i have twice also discussed with mr. Dube verbally, on 06april2011 and 19april2011) .
· and i have made it clear in this email, that i am not satisfied with mr. Yau’s response.
13) please provide me a written response as soon as possible, and no later than 90 calendar days from 06april2011 (The date that i discussed the matter with your nbc ombudsman representative mr. Dube at 1209pm) .
************
To
Mr. Peter yau, branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via reply - email to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager
Peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca, with a
Cc - copy to (1) ombudsman for banking services and investments (Obsi)
Via [protected]@obsi. Ca,
(2) mr. Louis vachon, president and chief executive officer of the national bank,
President office via email to [protected]@bnc. Ca and webmail - box at https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=president&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca)
(4) national bank financial group ombudsman for clients via https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=ombudsman&action=69&lang=en
(5) anne - marie. [protected]@priv. Gc. Ca
Dear sir,
(1) further to my earlier communication to you of today, also please refer to your professed:
(A) 5. 2 sub - section compliance with the law, and
(B) 5. 1 sub - section respect for clients.
Publicly posted at : http: / / www. Nbc. Ca / bnc / files / bncpdf / en / 2 / voluntary_codes. Pdf -
************
To
Mr. Peter yau, branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via reply - email to to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca, with a cc - copy to (1) ombudsman for banking services and investments (Obsi) via [protected]@obsi. Ca,
(2) mr. Louis vachon, president and chief executive officer of the national bank,
President office via email to [protected]@bnc. Ca and webmail - box at https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=president&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca)
Dear mr. Yau,
1) this is in response to your email to me, sent 25march2011, a copy of which is enclosed below.
2) attached herewith is a response that i received on 21march2011 from your email: president that stated - you can expect an answer from the national bank within 24 hours. A copy of it is attached as nbcpresident21marc2011email. Jpg.
3) i did not receive your response until 25march2011, which is 7 calendar days later, and most certainly not within the stipulated within 24 hours mentioned by your email: president.
4) you mentioned: to meeting with me. . . I am suggesting either in the morning or in the afternoon on march 30, 2011
5) presently, 30march2011 (Before your branch closes at 430pm) does not suit me.
6) for an amount of $5, for which i have already provided you all the relevant details in writing,
(A) what do you expect to feasibly and conceivably happen when it is an issue of your customer - service manager, mr. Li s word against mine?
(B) what is going to be achieved at this meeting instead of needless arguing back - and - forth, with mr. Li possibly stating that i made an error etc. ?
(C) net result: possibly nothing except wasted time for me.
(7) therefore, moving forward, as i mentioned earlier (In my email to you of 21march2011) :
(A) in light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, i want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i myself count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded after and not before the actual transaction.
(B) this time (As in the past multiple times) , it was demanded by your branch representatives, that i sign the acknowledgement before i actually received and counted the cash.
(C) furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them.
(8) you may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters of my money, i [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
(9) my request is consistent with the governing legislations’, including the bank act, existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (Or any other customer) cannot be forced (And bullied) to sign documents and then refused a copy of what you demand me to sign.
(10) please provide me a satisfactory written response (Via email to this email address and my postal - mail) within 7 calendar days of today, including whether you will provide me a copy of what i am legally entitled to, as per the law, and the bank act, i. E.
(A) sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i myself count and receive the cash;
(B) a copy of my own signature, i. E. Whatever documents you demand i sign, (Including any referenced addendums)
************
To
Mr. Peter yau,
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via email to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca, with a cc - copy to johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca and
Cc: mr. Louis vachon, president and chief executive officer of the national bank,
President office via webmail - box at https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=president&action=69&lang=en)
Dear mr. Yau,
1) in light of the incident occurrence detailed below, for the future, i want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i myself count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded after and not before the actual transaction.
2) this time (As in the past multiple times) , it was demanded by your branch representatives, that i sign the acknowledgement before i actually received and counted the cash.
3) furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them.
4) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
**********
To
Mr. Johnson li, customer service manager
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via email to johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca with a cc - copy to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca)
Dear mr. Li,
(1) you forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (In return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch - office - room with your and mr. Yau s business - cards.
(2) therefore, i actually got $1995 cash after i was told to sign the acknowledgement for having withdrawn $2000 cash today.
(3) i did not realize it either, until after i left the branch and it was closed for the day.
(4) can you credit this $5 into my chequing - account?
(5) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
(6) thanking you in anticipation of your cooperation, and i apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused to you.
************
To
Mr. Peter yau, branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager national bank of canada 4040 finch avenue east, unit 104 scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via reply - email to to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager
Peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca, with a
Cc - copy to (1) ombudsman for banking services and investments (Obsi) via [protected]@obsi. Ca,
(2) mr. Louis vachon, president and chief executive officer of the national bank, president office via email to [protected]@bnc. Ca and webmail - box at https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=president&action=69&lang=en)
(3) johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca)
Dear mr. Yau, 1) this is in response to your email to me, sent 25march2011, a copy of which is enclosed below.
2) attached herewith is a response that i received on 21march2011 from your
Email: president that stated - you can expect an answer from the national bank
Within 24 hours. A copy of it is attached as nbcpresident21marc2011email. Jpg.
3) i did not receive your response until 25march2011, which is 7 calendar days later,
And most certainly not within the stipulated within 24 hours mentioned by your
Email: president.
4) you mentioned: to meeting with me. . . I am suggesting either in the morning or in the
Afternoon on march 30, 2011
5) presently, 30march2011 (Before your branch closes at 430pm) does not suit me.
6) for an amount of $5, for which i have already provided you all the
Relevant details in writing,
(A) what do you expect to feasibly and conceivably happen when it is an issue of your
Customer - service manager, mr. Li s word against mine?
(B) what is going to be achieved at this meeting instead of needless arguing back - and - forth,
With mr. Li possibly stating that i made an error etc. ?
(C) net result: possibly nothing except wasted time for me.
(7) therefore, moving forward, as i mentioned earlier
(In my email to you of 21march2011) :
(A) in light of the incident occurence detailed below, for the future, i want to exercise my
Legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i
Myself count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an
Acknowledgement should be demanded after and not before the actual
Transaction. (B) this time (As in the past multiple times) , it was demanded by your branch representatives, that i sign the acknowledgement before i actually received and counted the cash.
(C) furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature
(Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to receive them.
(8) you may be entitled to your records. And when we are dealing with matters of my
Money, i [or any other customer] is entitled to my [his] legally valid records.
(9) my request is consistent with the governing legilslations, including the bank act,
Existing consumer protection and privacy laws that protect the public.
I (Or any other customer) cannot be forced (And bullied) to sign documents and then
Refused a copy of what you demand me to sign.
************
To
Mr. Peter yau,
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via email to to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca, with a cc - copy to johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca and
Cc: mr. Louis vachon, president and chief executive officer of the national bank,
President office via webmail - box at https: / / www. Nbc. Ca / webinfoweb / dispatchrequest?Aliasdispatcher=sendmailcommunicationex&emailalias=president&action=69&lang=en)
Dear mr. Yau,
1) in light of the incident occurence detailed below, for the future, i want to exercise my legally permissible right to sign acknowledgement of my cash - withdrawal after i myself count and receive the cash, which also makes logical sense since an acknowledgement should be demanded after and not before the actual transaction.
2) this time (As in the past multiple times) , it was demanded by your branch representatives, that i sign the acknowledgement before i actually received and counted the cash.
3) furthermore, i understand that i am legally entitled to get a copy of my own signature (Including any referenced addendums) and therefore, i would like to recieve them.
4) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
*********
To
Mr. Johnson li, customer service manager
National bank of canada
4040 finch avenue east, unit 104
Scarborough, ont m1s 4vs
(Delivered via email to johnson. [protected]@bnc. Ca with a cc - copy to branch - manager, i. E. Sales and service manager peter. [protected]@bnc. Ca)
Dear mr. Li,
(1) you forgot to give me the changed $5 bill (In return for the tattered $5 bill) when you returned to the branch - office - room with your and mr. Yau s business - cards.
(2) therefore, i actually got $1995 cash after i was told to sign the acknowlegement for having withdrawn $2000 cash today.
(3) i did not realize it either, until after i left the branch and it was closed for the day.
(4) can you credit this $5 into my chequing - account?
(5) please provide me a satisfactory written response within 7 calendar days of today.
(6) thanking you in anticipation of your cooperation, and i apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused to you.
*********
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
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National Bank Of Canada [NBC] phone numbers+1 (888) 483-5628+1 (888) 483-5628Click up if you have successfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (888) 483-5628 phone number 0 0 users reported that they have successfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (888) 483-5628 phone number Click down if you have unsuccessfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (888) 483-5628 phone number 0 0 users reported that they have UNsuccessfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (888) 483-5628 phone numberUSA & Canada+1 (514) 281-3159+1 (514) 281-3159Click up if you have successfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (514) 281-3159 phone number 0 0 users reported that they have successfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (514) 281-3159 phone number Click down if you have unsuccessfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (514) 281-3159 phone number 0 0 users reported that they have UNsuccessfully reached National Bank Of Canada [NBC] by calling +1 (514) 281-3159 phone numberInternational
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National Bank Of Canada [NBC] emailssecretariat.corporatif@bnc.ca100%Confidence score: 100%Support
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National Bank Of Canada [NBC] address700 de La Gauchetière West, Transit 4876-1, Montreal, H3B3B5, Canada
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horrible customer service & totally non transparent & biased complaint protocolOur Commitment
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