Wells Fargo review: loan refinance 380

I'm going through the same thing with Wells Fargo. their so called 1, 2, 3 steps easy refinanced. Locked in back on 01/09/09 at 5% with no fees. I called in today to check on status and was notify that I was denied due to the value of my house ($365k) under 80/20 rule. I purchased this home for $442 back in 12/08 and my neighbors just completed an appraisal on the exact same house at $455k. The funny thing is Wells sent out an appraisser to look at my house and then cancelled the appraisal because their "computer program" said my house was not worth $365k. They are running a scam. I could of gone with another lender back in 01/09 at the same rate. Now I'm out of luck and rate have gone up. Any recourse I can take against Wells?

Wells Fargo was doing the 123 step with me too. I called and spoke to Dan Smith Dec 12thish. Said everything was great, would get a packet in the mail, have it notarized and send it back. Our home is in an area that you could have an appraisal come back with any value necessary. There are 500k houses within 1 mile and 750k houses within 2 miles. They used the computer online programs to appraise, told me they were sorry it was in the process of denial. A lady showed up about 2 weeks later to take pictures of the back of my house to appraise it, but never walked into the front door, so they then downgraded my house another 10k and said they were still denying it. I have yet to receive a letter saying it was denied and it is now Feb 27th. I have tried to get Dan Smith to call me back several times to no avail. The customer service is just awful. My husband and I have credit scores of 793 and 805 per their paperwork. We put 62K down on our house (20%). This is how they treat their top tier customers so I can only imagine how everyone else is being treated. I just wanted my rate reduced since my loan is at 6%. They would be happy to offer me other products and I bet if I pay all the costs, they can get an appraisal that says it is 80/20. They have waited and waited until the housing market continues to fall so they can deny me. I will never use them again. We did only because our company paid our costs up front rather than us turning in a HUD for reimbursement. I can promise, next time we will cough up the extra cash for closing and go with a local lender than cares, not a corporation that takes tax payers money and treats them terribly.

Just Say NO!

Currently in the process of refinancing my mortgage with Wells Fargo too. They made a mistake on the loan amount and took about 1 month to give me the correct paperwork. The rate lock is expiring soon and they want me to extend it with $550 fee for another 15 days, but still are not guaranteed that we will close by then. I've spent about $1450 already on fee deposits and appraisal, and hate to sink in another $550 or even $1150 more. I would not recommend Wells Fargo for refinancing to anyone ..

I have a big complaint, I was supposed to receive a cd to inter act with the site---grantresearchguide.com---but I never received the cd and was charged 2.95 for the cd and then I was charged 49.50 for access to the site.This ticks me off because I never received either or any info to use the site.I'm writing this because I think I should be refunded all my money that was charged to me.

I recently had a similar experience with WF. They acquired my loan after the
first year from another mortgage company. I tried to take advantage of the
lower refinance rates (currently I am at 6.625%), but their excuse for denying
the loan was that my appraisal came in at about $800 above the value that would
have allowed the program to continue. Never mind that my credit score is in the
high 700s, and I have no intention of moving any time soon. They, of course
offered a traditional refinance which would have cost me another $4000 in
closing costs.

Same here. I tried to refinance my existing mortgage with WF too. I was using their no cost 123 loan. They denied the mortgage because the loan to value wasn't there. Never mind they comps they used were for a 3 bedroom 2 bath house with a 2 car garage and I have a 4 bedroom 3.5 bath house and a 4 car garage. They also used Zillow for their values which shows values for homes on lots that are not even built yet. Hows that work? Everything is done on their computer program to figure value instead of doing an appraisal. this keeps their costs down, and if the info is wrong your out of luck. The customer service rep told me that they had 30, 000 applications to process by the end of February and they were eliminating as many as they could so they wouldn't have to extend that many. I tried to explain the situation but they don't care as they have the business right now and are not willing to take an extra step to get it done the right way. I am not complaining about the value of my home because I feel it is worth more. I am an experienced licensed real estate agent, with an upper 700 credit score, using the multiple listing service to back me up. It is a professional opinion with facts to prove it and they still don't want to listen. The sad thing is I am with one of the largest real estate companies in my state. We do in the 10's of millions of dollars in transactions every month. I certainly won't recommend them to any of my clients and I won't recommend them to any of our over 300 agents in my office. I'm sure it will cost them more business than just little ole me.

I have a home loan with Wells Fargo of 97, 000.00 and a second mortage with another lender for 27, 000.00. I contacted Wells Fargo about combining the two since my second mortg. was at 7.5 and that way I would have just one payment. It was back to the old ways of lets put your car loan in with this and do you need any extra cash plus a fee of 7, 000.00 to refinance and get a 5.8 on the mortage. I see why people are not borrowing money at this cost. I'm going to send this information to my congressman and congratulate him on a great bailout program for people who will actually fall for this crap.

Count me as another WF victim. I have a 6.75 with WF. In early January ‘09, for refinancing with WF I locked in a 4.5. My credit is impeccable, and in 6 years my payments to WF on present mortgage have never been a day late.

And it’s been the same story I seen above in other posts. Stall, stall, stall. “We need this, we need that.” Give them this, that, and they stall more. Finally, one day last week (second week in March ‘09), they asked for copies of my recent tax returns. Three days later, over three months after I had locked in, they said, underwriter says we can’t consider as income what you reported to IRS as interest income (no reason stated as to why not). Sorry, Lady, you don’t qualify. Refinancing rejected.

And the off-the-wall thing about this rejection, is that they already have a mortgage on my house. It’s not as if in refinancing it, they take on new risk. Whatever risk there is, they already have. If they consider my income not good enough for refinancing, then why did they consider that same income good enough for my present mortgage?

So, as I see it, what they’re doing is trying to keep from losing interest income. By refinancing me, they’d reduce their take from 6.75 to 4.5. So, they rejected me for a reason that doesn’t make sense.

I see a pattern. Only refinance other banks’ mortgages. Don’t refinance your own, because you’ll lose interest.

Someone ought to report WF to President Obama. He is trying to revive the housing market by helping home owners get better financing. In this pursuit, the Treasury Dept has given WF and other banks billions in bailout money. And banks like WF with blatant refinancing tactics are abusing the public trust they accepted when they took bailout billions. Their lending practices are making the housing market worse.

Please all, write President Obama and Tim Geithner, Secretary of Treasury. Let them know what WF, for one, is doing.

Frances Elaine

The large banks are too busy to care about their clients. Customer service goes completly out the door when you deal with them. Can you call your loan officer on his/her cell phone? No! and that's they way they like it.
I have been busy with refinances just from borrowers that have been turned off with dealing with the big boys. No return calls for days, vague excuses, etc...
I suggest that you deal with a smaller organization and with someone that makes themselves available to you and gives you the straight answer not the BS that these large institutions tell their clients.

If you get tired of the run around feel free to contact me, I am a direct lender and have many references online. Just google my name and you will see.
Adam Dahill
Approved Funding Corp
41 Grand Avenue
River Edge, NJ 07661
[protected] x242 office
[protected] mobile
[protected] fax
www.approvedfunding.com
adahill@approvedfunding.com
Licensed Mortgage Banker NY NJ CT PA FL CA MD
DIRECT MORTGAGE LENDER

We are also WF customers - never missed or were late on a payment, credit score 790+ and when we applied for the so-called easy 3 step refi, they stalled and stalled and then pulled the same thing that they did with other posters - loan to value ratio is too low. Nevermind that the house next door to us (same sf, bed/bath, etc. and without a 2 car garage like we have) sold a few months ago for $40K more than we paid. Now that rates have dropped again, they want us to "reapply" Why? So that we can miss out on these good rates another time. No thank you WF. I'm going with a local mortgage lender who offered us 4.81%. Yeah, we have to pay closing costs, but frankly the run-around from WF which is keeping us from refinancing is costing more than just paying those costs. Bye bye WF!

Just a quick report. I have been taking screen captures of my Wells Fargo business account as I suspected that the values listed under 'amount pending' increase after being logged as not pending. I was right. For example, we sell software and we purchase this from another company. This company takes the money directly from our Wells Fargo account and the amounts show up as 'amount pending'. As soon as the 'amount pending' status is cleared, the amounts increase.

I called Wells Fargo and they told me that this was not their fault and that I need to contact our software providers. I am going to do this and if I find out it's Wells Fargo's fault, I already have an attorney lined up. Its bad enough that they rob us blind on the overdraft fees. Now I know why their logo is an empty stagecoach. We are the stagecoach after it has been robbed.

Yet another victim of the so called "simple" Wells Fargo three step refinance here. I currently have a 30 yr fixed loan w/ Wells which I've never once been late with. I have excellent credit and my loan to value percentage is way above normal. Wells Fargo convinced me that the 3-step no cost refinance was the best way to save on closing costs and expedite the refinance. Well, over the course of the last month they have stalled at every turn and requested every document known to man. I finally got a supervisor on the phone last wk to complain about the process and was assured that they had everything they needed and would close on the loan shortly. When I did not hear back from them in the following wk, I called to check on the status and was told that my loan had been denied bc my condo's master insurance policy's coverage for "employee theft" is insufficient. Apparently this program requires that condo's cover $600, 000 for possible employee theft. Are they kidding me? Why was the coverage sufficient for the current loan and not the refinance? Why did it take six wks to figure this out? These people are completely incompetent and have just lost another customer. I will never deal w/ Wells Fargo again!

I hadn't heard of their "Three Step Program" until today although I called a couple months ago to see if there exist a program for current customers to refinance and stay. They only sent me to a local branch to completely start over. I heard the "DU Refi Plus" was starting in April and called to find out.

I just talked to Wells about their program. They will not send a good faith estimate. Period. Offer good for the duration of the phone call. The rate on the phone was 5.125% which is not bad compared to a lower rate with a point and closing fees.

I then asked for something in writing about the program and how the cost are handled. Nothing.

The representative was very understanding that I could not go forward and understood I did not want to do a complete application w/o a GFE or other required documentation on the program.

https://mortgage.wellsfargo.com/easyapp/index.jsp

I fricken HATE Wells fricken fargo! What kond of name is That anyway? I am currently trying to get a home equity line of credit from them. OK Check this out! I just left Chase Morgage to go with WF to refi my home, they said my home was worth 215k WHICH WAS ALITTLE LOW CONSIDERING BUT IT WAS NOT LOW ENOUGH FOR ME TO RAISE AN EYEBROW SO ANYWAYS WE JUST CLOSED AND HAPPILY REFIED W/ THEM IN JAN/09 NOW THEY JUST DENIED ME FROM MY "HOME EQUITY LINE OF CREDIT" LOAN BECAUSE THEY SAY I AM NOT IN THE 80/20 RANGE...I SAID WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT...YOU GUYS JUST REFIED MY HOUSE IN JAN. AND SAID MY HOUSE WAS WORTH 215K...THEY SAID WELL WE JUST DID A DRIVEBY APRAISEL AND NOW IT'S AT 190K...I SAID OH REALLY SO YOU JUST DECIDED TO DEAPPRECIATE MY HOUSE 25 THOUSAND FRICKEN' DOLLARS...HUM...SO I GAVE THEM 3 COMPS OF SIMILIAR HOMES IN MY AREA ...A HOUSE RIGHT ACROSS THE FRICKEN' STREET W/ ONE LESS ROOM AND ONE LESS GARAGE JUST SOLD FOR 215K...I AM NOW IN THIS STUPID APPEAL PROCESS...MY WIFE AND I HAVE WAY OVER 700 CREDIT RATING! IF I DON'T GET THIS LOAN I THINK I MAY GET AN ATTORNEY AGAINST THESE GUYS!THEY FRICKEN' SUCK!GOD BLESS YOU ALL! =)

After reading all of the complaints against Wells, I just want to say their wholesale division is wonderful. Their retail division, which is where the common lay person will apply for a loan is a nightmare. I could address everyone of the above complaints and tell you why there is a problem .I am a broker in Alamo, California and within an hour its easy for me to analyze potential problems rather than waiting to hear about them later in the process after fees have been spent. This will eliminate so much frustration and unasnswered phone calls that span weeks with the poor people that have posted their complaints above thereby missing opportunities to lock in low rates. Its because these loan agents at these banks are not licensed and are getting paid minimum wage with no real knowledge of what to expect and what to look out for and how to even structure the loan to meet your needs. I have a cell phone and I answer it in the evening as well as the weekends. If you want to specifically ask me questions please give me a call. Wells fargo wholesale division is another world and their rates are so competitive I cant not send my clients to wells if they meet their standards. I never not close loans with them, or have had any denied, and I will tell you right away if there is going to be an issue, none of this send this document and then this, and have it span for weeks only to find out there is a problem.

The latest program that just came out last week was the HARP program. Any complaints on value when you were attempting to refinance your first, is now waived under this program and they will refinance you up to 105% to help the consumer that are slightly upside down on their loan. This is for 417K loan amounts and under.
I have shopped every bank for my clients and currently no one is even close to their rates (which are not the same ones you have been quoted if you went to them directly) so if you want to run a scenario by me or a question of why something may be an issue, give me a call or email me at parvaneh@parvaneh.net. [protected].
Parvaneh Mehran
RPM Mortgage
3201 Danville Blvd #195
Alamo, Ca 94507

I am in the same boat as everyone else...I currently have my mortgage with Wells Fargo and have been trying to refinance with them to use as a debt consolidation. I made my first phone call to them on December 29, 2008 and still do not have a closing date, I had to pay for 2 appraisals ( the first one was not good enough) and the floating rate lock which is about to expire (approx $1000.00). Every time I call "Michelle Scarbaci" I get her voice mail, she has never once answered the phone, then I have to wait days for a return phone call. I would love to cancel but I have put out so much money already and cannot afford to go elsewhere. It is very frustrating!

Yes, I too had the worst loan experience of my life over the past nearly three months of the bait and switch WF loan game. I have nearly perfect credit, don't owe much on my 30 yr fixed and they got me with the bogus appraisal, saying my home was not in good enough condition to refi, but they would be happy to foreclose or continue with me paying my current mortgage payments. They say they have the president's MHA program, but that too is a bait and switch game. I wish we could sue them, but from calling Freddie Mac what they're dong is always legal. WF has a very big legal team to make sure. But still what they are doing is at least ethically wrong and perhaps the laws need to change. Please contact and complain to your state Senators and ...

Please report your stories to:
www.helpwithmybank.gov
AskDOJ@usdoj.gov
timothy.geithner@do.treas.gov

If you get a wrong appraisal, have the appraiser investigated:
https://www.asc.gov/content/category3/StateSites/displayStateSites.aspx?id=49

We are casting a documentary about unfair bank policies. Looking for stories with complaints about banks. If you are cast we will pay you. If interested contact bellmartel@sbcglobal.net for more information. Casting needs to be concluded by May 1st, 2009.

I just did WF 3 Step refinance program today ( 5.2 % rate for 30yrs). After reading all these stories, I am scare about my refi loan. The lady just showed me the rate on the screen and nothing on paper. She didn't have any paperwork on the program. I was worried but like a dummy, I just trusted her. She mention that I didn't have provide any paperwork, but paid for the notary. Somewhere between %50-$150. Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

San Gabriel condo in CA.

Michelle Scarbaci never answers her phone! Neither does Tanya Terrero or Marie Herrero. These people make you feel special for all of one minute, ask you for your entire life story and documents, money and when you comply - they complain that they didn't receive this, or you need to fix that... so you go ahead and you do what they ask diligently. You call to see if they received it - no answer. You email to see if they received it - no answer. You get a call back sporadically and when they talk to you they are asking you for more things, or to send things AGAIN and AGAIN. Then they want to rush you, like it's your fault that THEY are inadequate and impossible to reach via phone, cell, fax, email... snail mail..They are taking so long processing our loan that the terms are about to expire - in which they may have to ask us to submit all of our documents again!

WF ###ed me. ### didn't locked in my rate. Why? I don't know. What should I do? SHould I complain and demand yesterday's rate or keep my mouth shut and wait and see?

After 2 days, I got the offical word that I was ###ed by the "mortgage specialist" at the wells fargo san gabriel (las tunas/san gabriel) branch. I showed the manager how she messed up and he couldn't believe it himself. She refused to take responsiblity for her screwup and blame it all on me.

DO NOT GO TO THAT BRANCH FOR HELP ON YOUR MORTGAGE. RUN...INSTEAD USE THE 1-800- NUMBER.

** ### told me that I couldn't enroll for the 3 step or HARP after taking me I was alright. Tried to sign me up for higher program. BAIT AND SWITCH.

Wow, sure a lot of whining going on here.

I have to agree a lot of the complaints are valid. But some of them hold an air of entitlement - particularly those who tout the credit score as if that made them entitled to a loan.

Remember a loan is OTHER people's money. For whatever reason, you couldn't save up $250, 000. OK, not going to make you look like a schmuck because of it, but there are some standards for lending. There is a lot I could go into here but I am not really willing to devote the time to more than a Partian shot.

Yeah, lots of things can go wrong and humans working for WF make as many mistakes as humans not working for WF. But in the end you are asking to borrow some other INDIVIDUAL'S investment. Do you have a friend right now who would write you a quarter million dollar check? Not many of you can say yes.

Anyhow, a little too much whining for me to remain mute on this point

Unfortunately, the wining is 100% valid. I have been trying to go through the 3 step refi for almost three months. I have yet to be denied; however, they are playing me. I own additional property free a clear and was asked for proof that it was free and clear. I sent them a copy of the Deed. I was then told two weeks later that the Deed was not good enough. It didn't show that I didn't get a private loan from a family member that wasn't showing up. The property was never purchased from a family member so I don't know where this issue is even valid. I then sent them a letter from the individual that I purchased the property that states the property has been paid for in Full.

This was one thing on top of many things. They also did an appraisal on my house after they did one just four months ago when we had originally closed. This appraisal came in 50K less than the appraisal from 4 months prior. They did not deny me; however, they told me that the underwriter would let me pay down the principle. We paid the principle down and then they asked for our bank statements and said that they need to verify that we were staying steady with our accounts. Normally, when you pay a few thousand dollars to pay principle down on a loan that wouldn't possible; however, we had just received our tax return and did.

This is just a couple of many things that have happened throughout the loan process. I do believe this is a scam. I think it is a method for Wells Fargo to get some fast cash. Whether people are paying fees, getting knew loans, or just paying principle down it is money they can put in their books. If they make the process a big enough pain, people are going to just tell them to forget it or they will take long enough to find anything that can be used to deny them. If this happens, they got cash and didn't have to change any existing loans. Plus they drain people extra cash so they can no longer go anywhere else and pay the closing cost. If they are lucky, the interest rates will go up and help prevent anyone from going anywhere.

This is definitely an illegal scam; however, the problem is proving it. I think their is enough to consider a class action lawsuit, but it would have to be just that, a class action. No one person would be able to prove enough or have the money to take it to court

Wow, I wish I would have read these comments before applying for the Wells Fargo 123 loan. I can especially relate to the comments by M8CONN. I could have saved myself some big headaches. I just spent two months digging up paper work for Well Fargo. I have requested to speak to my loan manager, but never hear from them. I also inquired as to why I can’t just walk into the bank and speak to a loan officer. I was advised it doesn’t work this way. I have asked to speak to management at the 123 program, but I was advised that this is also not possible.

I was kind of leery handing over personal information to someone over the phone. I had a bad feeling about this from the start. I will spare you all the details, but to make a very disturbing story short, I was denied the loan. Not because of my credit score [which was excellent]. Not because of the value of the home [which was worth more than the loan]. Not because of lack of income. Nope, I was advised that I could not get the loan, because of a farm I own free and clear. I made this clear day one, and wish they would have said something then. Could have saved everyone valuable time [especially me].

Although the loan is NOT for the farm, but for my city home, Well Fargo stated they would not do the loan because of the farm. Makes no sense to me. I would think owning another property would be an asset. Especially one that is producing income. Well looks like Wells Fargo did me a favor. The people were rude, and incredibly unprofessional. Why should they care? They are getting a huge tax payer bailout to make up for lousy customer service and loss of revenue. Nice to see our tax dollars going to these guys.

I wonder what Wells Fargo is really up to? Is it bait and switch? Even in a bait and switch scam the scammer acts like they want your business. I haven’t paid any fees. Are they going to sell my private information to other businesses? I am going to a Wells Fargo Brach today. I need to make sure that at least it is a Wells Fargo entity that has all my personal info. Wish I could get it all back.

Do yourself a favor stay away from Wells Fargo, and especially the 123 loan. Thank God almighty that I really don’t need the loan. I just wanted to re-finance to get out of the escrow. I am having issues with my current bank and the way they handle the Escrow. Good Luck all of you. I hope another bank appreciates your business. The banks are not doing you a favor. You are doing them the favor. Your fees, Interests, and even the late payments pay their mortgage.

Wow, Dieter really doesn't know how an economy works. Without lending, interest and movement of money, there is no economy nor capitalism. The people's comments are mostly for Wells Fargo to just be honest and up-front. If they did this and came out and said this is the criteria, I'm thinking most people would accept.

Just finished the 1-2-3 process. Had a number of paperwork demands but nothing I didn't think was out of hand. Actually liked the level of detail requested - may have learned from the issues that got us all into this mess. My issue and recommendation to everyone is to understand the "interest" applied for refinancing.

The no-cost is not true and they don't tell you the process. I got charged $3k in "interest" for the timeframe between refinancing. It wasn't clearly defined and they provide no paperwork stating how this was applied. I will be going back to get a detailed analysis of how this was determined. I have a finance background and can't figure the math they applied. Ask very clearly during the start how they plan to process the refinance and apply interest. The difference was $20 a month onto the payment for this.

I purchased a car with a Wells Fargo loan and the car was totaled. My credit was not in the best shape when I purchased the car and was charged an outrageous amount for not only the car, but the interest rate. To make a long story short, the loan was $4, 000 more than what the car was atually worth so the insurance didn't pay the loan off completely. After a long while I began paying for the balance through a CAREONE (a credit counseling company)...Wells Fargo has been taking my payments for the past 10 months even though they have sold the load twice. No one will talk with me when I call the company to find out where this money has been going and why I am not being told correct information. This 3rd company has told me that by law, they do not have to prove that the balance is correct or that payments have been made to another party.
I refuse to pay one more dime to Wells Fargo or any company that they have hired until someone at this shame of a company can explain to me why they have been taking my money with no intention of putting it towards the actual loan that I had with them.!
I would run screaming in the other direction if approached by this company.
I would seriously like to inquire about a lawyer and a class action suite against them.

Sheree Walker
Kalamazoo, MI

I'm Going through the 1-2-3 Refi, I figured out the added interest is because they set the new loan amount from what you owe on your current loan when START the refi process, plus the interest accrued during the month-2months it takes to close the refi. They use this number even if you have made payments on your original loan during the 1-2 months. I called and pointed out that the new loan amount was over 1300 more than it should be and they said they know and I will get a refund of the difference after the refi closes...heres the catch that doesn't reduce the inflated monthly payment from the larger new loan amount so you pay 10-20 dollars more a month for the life of the loan, which equals 2500 to 5000 more interest you will have to pay over the life of the loan...kinda pisses me off even though my payments are being reduced 200 less than what they were. Is this legal?

I just closed with Wells yesterday, finally. The road to closing has been really rough. Unfortunately, I have to agree on some of the negative comments posted here regarding Wells Fargo. Its a shame!

But here I closed, I would like to shed some light on the questions posted by Rob and tjmac here. I actually asked the lawyer a few times, I think this is how it works:

So you have a new loan balance which for argument sack. call it $104, 000. Who figured this new loan principal balance out? The bank did. How they do that? I don't know. But the key is no that number, so read on...

you also have the old loan "principal" balance which is what appears on your monthly mortgage statement. Just log in to your mortgage acount, u will see that nmber. say call it $98, 000

Then at the date of closing, you will pay off your old loan of $98, 000 and take out a new loan of $104, 000
so the difference is $6000, this is nothing to deal with interest. It is merely the difference between the old loan principal balance and the new loan princiap balance. If you are unhappy about that difference and don't want to pay interest on that $6000 for the next 30 years (assuming this is a 30 year fixed loan), you can, by all means, pay that $6000off right away because you can pay down the principal balance WITHOUT penalty anytime you want. So going back to the beginning question of how the bank figured out the new loan balance. Again, I don't know. But the key is that you can pay down that new loan principal balance right away. They cannot really scam you this way by forcing you to take on a bigger loan balance than you old one.

So I suspect the " $2000-$5000" additional interest that rob and tjmac are refering to is the difference between the new loan principal balance, again that $104, 000 and the "loan pay off" amount.

So what is "loan pay off"? beware this is different to the old loan principal balance, remember that $98, 000?
"loan pay off" is how much you actually owe the bank on your old loan. According to the mortgage statement, you would think y ou only owe 98, 000. No, you actually owe more than that and this is why.
on top of that 98, 000 old loan principal balance, you actually owe them an additional month of interest.
For the way mortgage payment is calcuated and recorded, interest is paid one month in arrear.
This mean that you April payment actually pays March interest. And March payment actually pays February interest. so on and so forth.
So say you are closing today May 15th and you have made your April payment (in April) which paid for the March interest. But you, knowing you are going to close today (May 15), you did not pay your May payment on the old loan.
So then even though your outstanding old loan principal balance is $98, 000. You actually still haven't pay the bank the April interest (which is supposed to be paid via your May payment). So that is your $2000 difference there and has to be added to that $98, 000. That is the amount of money that you "really" owe the bank on the old loan
To further complicate the matters, for refinancing, they want you to prepay the interest for the month of May at closing. Again your May interest is paid through the June payment. Instead of making a payment in June, they want you to pay upfront at closiing. So that is another $2000 there. So at closing, the amount you actually owe on the old loan will be $98, 000+ April interest of 2, 000 and May interest of 2000. That equal to your "loan pay off" amount of $102, 000. So at closing, you have to come up with an additional so called "interest" amount of $4000. this is why
You will think that this is a scam by the bank, it is actually not. Remember, you did not make any payment in May, and you also, on the new loan, don't need to make any payment in June. Your first payment on the new loan will start in July. So you pay extra 4000 bucks "so called interest" at closing but you will end up skipping two months of regularly payments (May and June). It all net out, you are not worse off or better off.

Honestly, it took me some times to research on this stuff before I fully understand it. Wells Fargo could have done a much better job explaining that to people who refinance.

This is not a regular refinance this is the 3 Step no closing costs refinance. I was told that what ever my current loan balance was, including any outstanding interest, that is what the new loan would be and WF would be covering all other closing costs.

I'll go over this again. After I brought up the loan amount discrepancy I was told it was my principal amount as of april 1 plus interest from april and may up to the 29th ( I had already crunched the numbers before hand and they matched the new loan amount so the rep just confirmed what I had already figured out). I reminded them that I had made the may 1 payment so the interest of april had been paid and should not be included in the new loan amount.

The rep told me the 3 step refinance part of WF didn't have the dept to adjust the loan to the current ( and correct) loan pay off amount (That excuse is total BS in my opinion btw). Instead what they do is send me a refund of the difference after the loan closes. But the extra money added to the monthly payment stays.

It doesn't net out because I am paying 10-15 more a month for interest I already paid in april.

hey rob. i was thinking about that too. but luckily we got the month of May payment processed just in time. So i don't have to deal with the "why don't you pay the April interest and the May interest at closing and then WF will refund you after the closes" ###. i thank god for this, really.

but in your case. you paid the month of may and they said they will refund you the month of May. And apparently you don't have to make any june payment because you already paid the interest of june at the closing. why don't you use the refund (if this refund ever gonna come your way, knowing WF, u should really be on top of it if i were you) to pay down that "extra" or so called "new money of 2000 bucks" that will generate that 12 bucks a month interest. again should the refi never had happened, u will have to pay the may payment anyways. since you will get the refund from wf, in essence, May is free or to be exact the interest of April is free. So you are better off by 2000 bucks but your new loan balance is 2000 higher than the old one. on the front, you are 2000 worse off. Net net again is zero, but this is only if you use your May refund (again to be exact, the April interest refund) to pay down that extra 2000 new loan balance to avoid that extra 12 bucks a month for the next 3o years. Then you should be squared.

i hope this is how it works. i hope i clarify that for you.

If this is not true. Ron, please correct me. We are going to cancel the mortgage. we got three days.

my bad, correcting to my former post.

let me ask you this, is the difference between the new loan and old loan that creates that extra 12 bucks a month difference equal to the refund that u will get from wells fargo? if yes, i think this is the mechanisum

if you are closing @ 5/29. at closing, u will pay 1) the difference between the old loan balance and the new loan balance, 2) the april interest, and 3) the may interest. since you alreade made you may payment. you should be refunded by wf of that payment which is your April interest/May payment and it should equal to the extra 2000 loan balance.

from there, you should pay down the new loan balance (which is higher than the old loan balance) with the refund. you can then avoid that extra 12 bucks a month for the next 30 years.

lets call it spade to spade, you do owe them april interest and the fact that they refund you. that month in essence is free. but there is no free lunch in this world. they then dock you with a higher new loan balance by that same amount. if you use the refund to pay down yoru new loan balance. logically, you and wf are even. don't forget, your new loan first payment should be in July. You should not pay anything in June. If they send you a June statement asking for money, you should really go bomb their office. j/k. i almost did that in one incident a month back.

going back to the beginning question. the bottom line is if that diff between the old and new loan is bigger than the refind that u will get from wf. they have screwed you somehome.

I'm going through with the loan simply for the fact that I am still saving significantly more money than with my original loan.

The extra money each month sucks because I am not planning on holding this loan to term since most likely we will be moving in the future. But more than that I don't like being treated like a dope.

It is insulting to think that they don't even try to explain any of this, it makes you believe that they think the customer is a stupid, slow witted, fool.

No matter how nice the voice, be wary this my friends is our new world order, sad really.

Good luck everyone.

i am glad that you are happy with the extra long-run savings from this refi.

no matter what it is. its over. u did it! and there really is no "no fee refinancing" in this world. Having this mindset, with a little bit of research and a lot of patience, u all will get it done.

i am holding my breath for the first new loan payment in july. then i will know for sure whether i am really all set and done with this refi nightmare!

good luck to everyone!

I put in my paper work two months ago for a refinance with Wells Fargo and have yet to lock in a rate. I'm pulling out and going somewhere else. It's ridiculous and the whole time my "mortgage specialist" keeps trying to give me a 17% credit card from Wells Fargo.

Wells Fargo just called me to DENY my already APPROVED HARP LOAN! What gives I said, everything was fine. The idiot on the other line said they checked my eligibility again and now it was denied.

Bottom Line - I have a perfect 800 credit score, I meet all the HARP guidelines, and yet WF found some way to FORCE me to stay at my 6.75% interest rate!

Can they do this? The processing agent told me WF can do whatever they want, if they don't want to refi you through HARP, they don't have to!

Lovely ! I can't stand these guys, they are criminals for forcing people to stay at their high interest rates!

Yes indeed my wife and I are another poorly treated customer of Wells Fargo of unscrupulious buisiness practice. We called up about an unrealated event and were OFFERED a refi- by a rep. it was a fine deal unsolicitated by us at that. We agreed to the terms, came to an understanding and legal meeting of the minds. We also have very good credit and payment history and were lauded that everything is in order to appreciate a new term of refi. In comes First Horizon as the other player- oh I know you all sighed and have figured out who is pointing their finger at who as to why it has taken over 60 days to not close the terms of this refi. It is pathetic and quite frankly we feal both institutions have acted with duplicity to impead the simple close of this refi. Countless hours on the phone with Carnella of Wells Fargo probably just doing her job dictated by mngt. to not finish a sentance on a 2 page doc. so the refi pkg. is in limbo because First Horizon will not return information, Oh wait, I'm sorry it was Wells Fargo who did not ...ER we did everthing asked of and beyond . Now it was cast into a "BAIT AND SWITCH" because WE did not get the info completed in the 30 day unsolicited offer. Now we have to act indignant and become terse with Carnella of WELLS FARGO and FELLICIA of FIRST HORIZON. ALL of us lose when we become nasty and degenerate towards eachother in a staged dog fight sponsered by BOTH financial institutions. The upper mgt. twists its otherwise decent people like Carnella and Fellicia into their own rat dogs tossing my wife and me into the air like so much fodder as the WELLS FARGO'S and FIRST HORIZONS chuckle and squeeze another month of an unjust inflated mortgage payment. As the doggy chases its tail while we the consumer are paying the admission fee for a corrupt goverment sanctioned despicable mind game. Feet upon the desk, smoke in the air, mgt authorized referee who is there to make sure it perpetuates another round of realized monetary gain, and the spirit of the players, Carnella, Fellicia, my wife and me at each others throats. In a miserable act or pawns if you will, of unfettered high rollers WELLS FARGOS' money belt is unbuckeled and FIRST HORIZON"s notched chuckle of one more inflated mortgage payment to finance comming attractions. MORE UNDESERVED STOLLEN MISSREPRESENTED capital gain at the dire expense of it s own indignant employee compelled to lie and yank the chain of decent paying CUSTOMERS. Who are also paying for the butter atop the bail-out corn we are choaking on. Comming attractions, S-Richard Lugar, IN-S-Evan Bayh, IN- REP. Mike Pence, IN-REP.Dan Burton, IN as well as the lot of our republic decision makers across the land. Stay in touch, ooops not so in touch, for your touch is misery tamped down with the "soul" of "icey" "heals" whom america is being treaded upon WELLS Fargo Stommping a jig with First Horizon, , , , and so it goze..

I am glad tha I am not the only person who has issues with Wells Fargo. They have asked me 4 times for the exact same paperwork. I keep sending them more and for whatever reasons I have to continue this unorganized game of theirs. I lost my job and I have been trying to get them to lower my payments so my home will not go into foreclosure. I have been on this rollercoaster ride with them for 4 months now. Everytime I talk to them they want another piece of paper from me immediately. The same papers they asked for last month and the month before that. I send it and then there is something else I have to send immediately or I am told that I have to start the entire process over.
Wells Fargo has no intention of helping me save my home. This bank is so unorganized and unprofessional I am surprised they are still in business. I feel completely frustrated and broken by them.

I am doing refinance with WF ( the one is located at Fremont on Mowry Ave), their service is really bad. The agent seldom returned our email or phone call, the Agent is careless. My application was submitted 60 days ago, the interest rate is going up, they are telling me that the Agent needs to discuss with me about my option now, but I have never received a phone call and email about it. Lousy attitude. Can I get my $495 application fee back?