Harley Davidson
Reviews and Complaints

Hello, my husband and I visited the Harley dealership in Saint Paul, MN yesterday to buy poker chips for a pub table that we are making, when my husband found his dream bike. We were not in the market to buy one, but the sales people involved of coarse wanted our business, so they told us it was the end of the year and Harley had all kinds of promos going on and that they would work with us on whatever worked for us to get that bike. They said they could do no money down, push out payments, lower the price, have the bike delivered to our front door and possibly even pay off our other bike loan. We asked if we could call our bank as we have a very good repor with them and they said that they could get us better deals with Harley because they were able to negotiate better with them than a personal bank to get us the best deals. The bike was a 2012 yellow Harley Road King with 48, 000 miles on it and they were asking 14, 999 with a crossed out price of 15, 999. The bike was beautiful and everything my husband wanted. The bike previously belonged to one of the saleseman's best friends (which is why I believe we got screwed over) and of coarse were told all the miles were highway miles (but then in a later sentence we learned that they went to Sturgis, which is obviously not just highway miles). The one salesman Cody kept asking for my husbands drivers license and kept telling us it would only take a few minutes to get us approved and kept trying to get us not to leave. We later left to get something to eat and did some checking on blue book and found that the were asking more than the blue book price (which we told them about), but since my husband loved the bike so much and since they said they would work with us, we had decided to call and have them check on getting us the loan because of all the previous promises made. They later called and said we would need 1600.00 down with payments of almost 400.00 a month, but to come back to the dealership and they would work with us. We went back to the dealership and told them we did not want to put money down and that we needed lower payments and were told they could not lower the price of the bike only but maybe by a couple hundred dollars because of all of the add ons it had on it and that they already had the bike marked down for us (the crossed out price on the sign that anyone could get). If they would have told us they couldn't lower the price of the bike in the first place, we would not have even bothered with it! They filled us a whole line of bull and we were completely suckered in! We asked once again about just calling our bank and they said they would like to re-send everything through to "Wings" because they could get us a lower interest rate and lower payments and that they are much better ( was not sure why they just didn't do that in the first place, because then they had to pull our credit again!). They kept asking that we not leave (probably because they knew would research and find better deals), but we really needed to get home so we left. The next day they needed my social so I gave it to them to run it through "wings" and they said now we would most likely need 800 down...If we could have just called our bank and they would have worked with us we wouldn't have had to deal with all of that and now they had our credit pulled twice! Overnight we found a yellow 2013 Ultra Limited with 10, 000 miles on it for 12, 145 without even negotiating yet, but had to travel 5 hours to get it, and I did tell them that since the bike they were trying to sell us had almost 40, 000 more miles on it for more money (still no negotiating). Truth be told...we still would have bought the bike, but they would not do anything for us like we were promised and now they pulled my credit twice which could have been avoided if they would have been honest in the first place and they would have just let us deal with our own bank. (My husband even asked why they just wouldn't let us call our own bank and he fumbled on his words telling us how their bank was so much better). I am not complaining that we did not get the bike because apparently everyone is intersted it (which I'm sure is not true), but because I don't appreciate looking like complete fools falling for every promise they made to us that they couldn't keep. I never buy from dealerships, but thought they seemed super sincere and thought we would give them a chance since it was everything my husband wanted and deserved. They confirmed everything I already believed! We are super disappointed and determined to not be made a fool again along with any of my
friends. We will not be returning...

The Gold Coast Harley AUSTRALIA have been rude, unhelpful, and now refuse to clarify something about the bill that seems very strange.

I bought a Roadking in 2016 second hand (practically new only one year old) from the dealership. I bougght some parts whch I think it was 5K.

I was doingt accountging with accountant and we saw that my loan now is 38K which doesnt sound right. I thought it was less..

We read the invoice and says 35k.
7 k for parts which I thought it was only 5K.
1.250 aud for 3 year warranty when the bike was still under factory warranty, so I dont remember to have boought an extended warranty.

Maybe I did but I would like to see documents including extended warranty and 7K parts with my signature.

All I want is that the finace deaprtrment (Dylan) which sold me the bilke, can go over with me what I paid for. And specially explain how come my loan is over 38K when the total was 35K

His reply is:

Jose,

Jesse can supply you with the parts total that's fine, you purchased an extended warranty for 3 years for your bike.

I don't have all of your documents now, the lender St George can supply you with the breakdown of your application, not us.

We are an agent for the financier. You may have taken out loan protection or gap cover. I don't know now as it has been 2 years Jose.

Sorry I can't help you with the breakdown of the figures but I simply can't access the information now.

I'm not sure how this has become an issue after so long?

Jose you have put me in an awkward position asking these question after so long. You should take some responsibility for not keeping all of your paperwork that was supplied.

You told me last year you lost it all didn't you?

"Jose,

Yu were provided all of that information 2 years ago, I am not having this conversation with you again.

Dylan Boulger | Business Manager
Gold Coast Harley-Davidson"

There is much more I can tell you about this dealership like for example the guy that sold me the bike Jake he doesnt even say hi to me when he sees me in the shop. And how the saddle bags had a defect, its a harley known thing, and one fell off, and they refused to fix the paint. This happened only 1 month after I bought the bike. I am a member of the American Motorcycle club Australia and Gold Coast Harley has a very bad reputation for being arrogant with clients treating them like crap after the bike has been bought, and mecanics damaging paint jobs etc etc etc. This is not a lie or exageration.
I am writing this complaint in hopes that someone that cares for the reputation of this awesome brand does something about it. If I dont get an answer to my concerns I will escalate this to the Headquarters in the USA.

Its unacceptable that a client that has spent over 40K in this shop gets treated and talked to like this. I believe there may even be legal repercussions but I know for a fact that its not good for the image of Harley Davidosn.

This shop is damaging the reputation of Harley Davidson, the best Motorcycles in the world. This is my lifestyle, and NOW I DONT EVEN FEEL COMFORTABLE TO GO TO THIS DEALERSHIP WHICH IS THE CLOSEST TO MY HOUSE TO BUY A SHIRT OR A NOTHER BIKE. I have two more friends which are in my same situation. I can give you their full names and even get them to write their experience if you want. One of them came along 2 weeks ago and he didn't even wanted to step in the buyilding, he waited outside. This is true. This is how some people are feeling with Gold coast Harley Australia. This shop is the closest harley dealership to my house and its still 30 minutes away. The next one will be Gasoline Alley almosty in Brtisbane 1 hg=our away from my house.

You walk into a harley Davidson dealership in the US and you feel welcomed. I have bought my harley here and I promise you that I get treated like I am not welcome.

I am dissapointed, and helpless. Would like to talk to someone that can explain to me why I am paying different than agreed, and if I accepted to that I assume they will have a document with my signature., or simply a brake down of parts etc so we can contast with harley prices.

Thank you and best regards

José Gutiérrez
tel: +33 [protected] (Europe) tel: +62 [protected] (Indonesia)
Whatsapp: +61 [protected] skype: jose.nomadsurfers
w: nomadsurfers.com e: [protected]@nomadsurfers.com

...

I want to inform you that I have harley davidson street rods 750cc motorcycle (up 32hx 0604 sumit gupta) which was given for a claim about 2months before, when the estimate was generated to the insurance company was near about 120000/- the main issue is about the tank which was told to insurance company to pay of 48560/- now when the bike is ready the workshop is claiming for the tank is for rupees 112966/- and the total 206266/- I request you to solve my problem asap and take an action on your workshop to sought out problem soon.
As you want some more info so just call me up on my given number sumit gupta [protected] thank you

I purchased a stage 4 for my 2016 streetglide the dealer put a down load in it. I bought and paid for a provision power tuner to run the program for my set up on my bike .I was credited the Harley down load back and put it towards my tuner and paid the difference. I have the receipts showing the credit and paid in full for the tuner and the dealer hasn't done anything to rectify the situation. It's been over 3 months now and still nothing...

I have 2016 Road King bought it new with zero millage on February 2017 from Riyadh dealership in Saudi Arabia. The bike had a discount since the 2017 model was on show. The thing surprise me is the warranty was started before I bought the bike!

They said "you bought the bike with discount so the warranty was started from the date that we receive the bike from the manufacture"….

Is it fair to start the warranty before I bought the bike, and the discount that I had is because I bought the bike one year old. Otherwise I will go with new 2017!

Heavy weight Harley / Fly weight Customer

Hi Friends/ Fellow Hogs, A loud shout for help and solidarity if motorcycling and justice means anything to you.

I come from.a humble background and always dreamt of an opportunity to own a Harley, grew on the brand on the culture on the spirit of motorcycling and ofcourse my chance to be a Hog, ( the Hog part the only good thing till date )

Finally did own a Street Glide SPL touring in 2016 but never new that such a big American brand like Harley Davidson treats their customer with kids gloves and are not serious on the hard earned money, I thought the slogan read " Screw it lets Ride " for me it seems " we took you for a ride, Screw you" We give them our savings and ride out putting in our time and passion, in this case both Harley Davidson India and the dealer Banjara Harley Hyderabad are behaving like Pontius Pilate, well the case is a follows sad but true

I met with an accident on March 5 the 2018. bike was picked up from accident spot, taken to dealer service station same day, claim was filed same day, paper formalities due to insurance company delay etc etc took till Mid May 18 watch out the ICICI Lombard insurance part is another episode altogether sincerely see before you indulge with any off these brands mentioned if it's your sweat n blood u put in deal.

Now technically from Mid May 2018 till today 11 October 2018 I have been, pleading, pleading, pleading short of begging to the dealer Mr Aditya Banjara Harley who says all good at his end nothing lacking there no support from Harley India and Divya Gurgaon, Then to Harley Davidson India, Mr Vijay Thomas Lead Marketing India whom I personally know and spoke to and asked for help in Aug, and all this is on email correspondence, Apart from some call centre folks displaying their sincere apologies and regrets nothing realistic come out till date no sign off the bike still counting days, that's like a whole 7 months and counting, ( even I started questioning whether I asked for the bike or a baby) the saga is more horrific prior to this I had cracked my saddle box they took 4 months plus to replace my saddle box and now 7 months plus and still counting to service and replace parts and my color is a simple vivid black so no stress.

So off the 2 glorious years gone by Harley took my money as a customer, kept my bike with them for nearly half the time 1 year, I bore the depreciation cost approx 8 lacs for the same on their behalf and still don't know what to do, How can a company such as Harley Davidson come to countries like us, sell Thier product and leave you literally begging, isn't there some policy or quality standards that they follow or govern them, why bully people sell products which they can't service don't we have rights here. what are our options I ask a customer, I am sure I am not the only one here.

Just poured out my heart my fellow riders, the only good I got from Harley Davidson is the pleasure of meeting you all, I hope the company please reply me officially on the same . It's so painful and regretful to have associated and opted for this brand, people save for this dream, it's not a wise thing to play with emotions of simple and humble people, Harley Davidson India and Us please take note If you listening,

Pl advice and express your solidarity if you feel for the good .motorcycling we enjoy. Friends I pray and hope it's not you next

Dear HD,
I have purchased 2 different pairs of your leather boots and am wondering where the quality has gone... The first pair split across the rubber sole only after 3 months old and the other sole split 2 months later. The second pair complete dropped it's rubber sole in under a year. It is that time of year a good boot is needed and it's hard for me to justify purchasing more of your boots with such a short life span. It disappoints me because I do love the weight of HD boots, the height in the heel and overall comfort, not to mention the look. I wish I could add longevity to the list of positives...
Sincerely,
Pamela Stephas
[protected]@gmail.com

I bought a 2006 Dyna Low-Rider in 2005 and I also purchased the 2006 service manual for this bike. In the first year I drove it, I put 10, 000 miles on it. I became ill and was unable to drive this bike for the next 10 years. In that time, my son-on-law drove it few times to keep it up. I maintained this bike the whole time I was ill. It was constantly garage kept.

When I finally got well, I started driving the bike again about 2 years ago. I put on another 5, 000 miles. Last week, I was a mile from home when I heard a strange noise from the front of the motor and noticed that my check engine light and battery light came on. I returned home immediately. Upon checking the electrical circuit, I found the stator had a dead short. I purchased a new stator and chain cover gasket. Upon pulling everything apart, I found eight bolts that had come out of the rotor that covers the stator and these bolts ate the stator up. I went to my local Harley dealer and purchased new stator bolts. I also wanted to purchase 8 new bolts that came out of the rotor. They said that those bolts were not available anymore because the rotor and the plate are not two units, they come welded together. They wanted to charge me over $300 for a part that was poorly designed in the first place. Harley had to have known that they were poorly designed because now they come welded together.

My question is: Why wasn't this a call back for my motorcycle? I did receive a call back for my 6 speed transmission. And I did get that fixed. People buy Harleys because they want quality and representation, but to charge someone approaching $400 for a part that was originally poorly designed is not good customer relations. You cannot "Dollar" your customer to death or they will go elsewhere. Had I taken this repair to a Harley-Davidson Dealership, how much would this repair cost me for a bike with only 15, 000 miles? I am mechanically inclined and I will fix this myself. I am extremely disappointed that now HD stands for "Hundreds of Dollars" instead of integrity and pride in your product.

I had bad experience with many Canadian dealer this is the last one. I had my first tune up with brand new 2018 road glide ultra the day before living for are motorcycle road trip we do every year. I was concern about a noise in my engine and the over heating of my bike. What I said to the service. The answer they come back with is: THAT'S NORMAL IT'S A BIG ENGINE" without making any test. So left for vacation in new Hampshire stop at Meredith and tell the service my concern about the noise and the heat. The guy come to see the bike ride the way. So he told me that was not normal and he would like to do some test, what my Canadian dealer did not do. After test he told me the noise was coming from the inside of the engine, so they will have to open the engine to see but they have to ask Harley Motors Company. They ad to fight with them because they said it was normal . After back and fourth between them they got the ok to open it. The normal noise my Canadian dealer had told me refer to be most of all parts inside engine was badly damage. So damage Harley Motors decide to send a brand new engine, and replace a couple parts in oil system to make sure the new motor wont get and metal pieces. So we lost are month of vacation because no bike. If it was not the Meredith dealer fitting for my concern we will be probably stock somewhere in the mountain or desert on are trip. So from august 6 to the 26 we did not had or bike .Why there is no following on Canadian dealer to make sure we get the service we deserve because those machine are expensive. And what happen there is the last one I had other bad experience since I drove Harley's in Canada. I have travel a lot true the states and I never experiment a bad service always got 200% of everybody in the dealer so why can we got the same in Canada? Those guy of Meredith are unbelievable on the service they give to client (in my case). You will find the work order of my dealer and the one from Meredith

Bought bike brand in 2017 it is a 2016 low rider s . Problem is at any given time it will shut off its happened 3 times day and night at different temperatures. Also started to backfire between gears. The bike has approximately 2000 miles on it . I have taken it back to the dealer twice. There unable to detect the problem. Started at 1500 miles and only does every now and then . This is my 5 harley I have owned. Right now I'm afraid to ride for the fear of stalling in heavy traffic and getting hurt or stranded. Is there a problem with the 110 engines . Or has anyone else ran into same problem. This bike seems to be below all the standards I'm use too with my other harleys. Very diappionted

I bought my Street Glide one and a half years ago and the dealer has had it 3 Mon out of that time. First the oil pump had to be replaced, then rocker arm and issue's with it . During the time that my bike had visited this dealer I got no solid answers as to what was going on with my bike, in the meantime I have keep my oil changed and in doing this I have found metal in the oil pan. So if Harley Davidson wants a repeat customer they need to do something about my bike it not Indian will see my business

I have been in contact with the Repo department for the last 10mo about a 2014 Street Guide that I have had for almost 1 and 1/2 years. The last contact HD had with me was about 3mo ago. I understand why HD is going broke now. I need someone to contact me about arrangements concerning the bike. Here is the VIN info 1HD1KRM1XEB678190

Thanks Nick Fortner

[protected]

3 Weeks ago I lost my key fob for my XL1200C. I contacted Edinburgh HD to see what could be done. I explained the situation and the part I was advices to buy was to replace my TSSM with a plug and play replacement no code required and this was the best way to go, advised by Harley Davidson Edinburgh, I received the part and it did not activate the bike ( by pass security). I called HD Edinburgh who's advice I followed and was told it works 9/10 times? This was not the case on purchase then if I could take my non running bike to Edinburgh... This was not possible. I soarce a garage in Aberdeenshire that uses the same HD diagnostic equipment as Edinburgh we even spoke to the head engineer who said that the procedure followed was correct. After a couple of days my bike was fixed, and because of ill advice by HD Edinburgh I am know £200 out of pocket for Labour charges. I find that the I'll advise by HD I should be compensated. I look forward to your reply.

The wiring harness on my 2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Glide failed after only 3300 miles. The harness was installed improperly at the factory when it was built new. We discovered this after removing the wiring harness. This defect could not be see until the harness was removed from the bike. The motorcycle would blow the fuse that controlled the brake light, turn signals, speedometer, instrument lights, horn etc. It was installed at the factory so that the swing arm rubbed the covering off the conduit protecting the wiring.

The motorcycle is out of warranty but the main wiring harness of a vehicle should not fail after only 3300 miles. Having no brake lights or turn signals is a dangerous situation on a motorcycle. I have paid $830.00 so far to repair this issue. The dealership, to their credit, covered the wiring harness. I say so far as the dealership is still working on the bike... when I got it back the engine light came on and it did not run properly.

I called Customer Support at Harley and they started a case number for this issue and passed the buck off to the dealership. They were not willing to support this defect. The issue, so far, is $830.00 that Harley Davidson should reimburse me.

On Saturday 8/11/18, I had taken my 2001 FLSTS Heritage Springer in for service - had full service performed, leak from the shift shaft seal repaired, handlebar risers replaced, front and rear brakes bled, and a ground wire repaired; which this dealer replaced in 7/2016. I dropped off my bike at 0830 AM; they began working on it at 0900. I was advised that work was completed at 3:15 PM. a total of 6 hours and 45 minutes to service my bike. When paying the bill, I had questioned the Labor charge of $1032.00. As they had posted the labor charge of $105/hr, the actual charge should have been $708.75; I was charged $323.25 extra. $1032 labor charge, at $105/hr labor, equates to 9.8 hrs of labor; I didn't even have my bike at the dealership for 9.8 hours. When I questioned the service manager, Mike, he said that Josh, is a master mechanic, and was more efficient than others, stating he finished 9.8 hours of projected time to complete the service, in 6 hours and 45 minutes - and, charged my for "the time it should have taken him". Then stated "would I rather have a less experience mechanic who would take 3 days to complete this job". He then went on to indicate they charge not for the actual time spent, but what a "book projects the time it would take for such a service", and not the ACTUAL time it took. I had purchased my bike from this dealership back in 2001. I have had ALL my services performed at this dealership. I subsequently reviewed all my prior receipts. My prior services had the exact time it had taken for each service, documented. On this visit, it seems that each service was rounded to the closest hour - for example, repairing the leak was EXACTY 3 hours; repairing the handlebar raisers took exactly 2 hours, etc. while all these services were completed during the "same hours". Please help me understand this, as I feel like I was cheated/swindled. At the labor cost of $1032, at 6 hours and 45 minutes, they charged me $153/hr for labor; not the $105/hr they had posted. The posted labor cost of $105/hr is inaccurate.

I purchased a new Harley on Friday 3 2018 from the Harley Davidson shop on Centerville rd in Dallas TX.! I was very happy with my purchase which I traded my other Harley for a new 1 ! It's just when I got the bike home and noticed the bike has a very loud knock coming from the engine and I called and even went down to have them look at it and they said it was normal for it to knock like that ! The engine fluids have to heat up and it subsides is what they told me ! Well I've called and called and told them the knocking is very load and does subside but is still very loud ! No one will ever call me back ! I even had them start up other bikes in there shop that are exactly like mine and there is no knock wut so ever in those ! I don't know what I can do I just want a bike that doesn't sound like a blown rod is knocking in it all the time but no one will call me or give me the time of the day now the deal is done ! There mechanic says well if there is a problem we will find it on your maintenance I don't want to wait that long ! Guess this will be my last Harley purchase!

I am sure you have had this complaint before. I just can't fathom, understand how it is impossible to get a part, which apparently is not made, manufactured anymore. I have a 2006 VrodSE Screaming Eagle, beautiful. The sender went out . I am unable to get it repaired because part no longer is made, or available. I was told they have a work aroundputting a gauge on handle bar etc. I bought the HD VRDOSESC because of it beauty, because its a HArley, and to ADD "jerry" rigged fuel gauges, different fuel sender is not what I would expect. It would take away the beauty of the bike .. What ashame, Now even if I wanted, which I don't, to sell it I can't much less get its worth. I was told to find a used one, even that has not been possible and the ones I have found are very used probably have the same problem - reason they are selling them. Plus a high price. The price would not matter if I knew it would work like a new one and have a warranty. Anyway, froma disappointed end user rider I needed to vent
Thank U. If there is ever a solution Please let me know
[protected]@outlook.com
Amando Garza III MD

Good morning,
with the present I do inform you that I did buy a used motorbike at Policaro H-D Dealer located in Oakville, ON, Canada the past May.
At the end of June, I bring the motorcycle with me in Italy to keep it there with me for the holidays. I was very happy for that expressing this to the Policaro staff as well.
Unfortunately, I recognize that the bike they gave me was not properly prepared but has various problems among which with one of these I risked killing myself and my son that was raiding with me… ; during a descent from mountain bends, I missed it and I risked doing a straight, I thought of the Policaro Harley staff intensely…Therefore I went immediately to the closest H-D Official service for a check (H-D Bassano del Grappa, province of Vicenza, Italy, 1 hour away from Venice).
They found the following problems:
The rear brake oil is black and has water inside, it has not even been purged.
The gear oil is to be replaced because it is black.
The starter motor has to be replaced because it is finished, the same for the related components.
During the trip back to the official Harley-Davidson local dealer, the front left suspension broke because it was LOOSENED in the closing, so I found myself having to replace both the suspension…
The front position light has mass losses, so I have to check the electrical system too

Now, I did ordered the spare parts at the official HD dealer, which will provide a complete technical report in written form and complete of photos in manner to switch them to you for your information/understanding/invstigation.

I did wrote already to Policaro asking How do they intend to solve the problem?
I haven't got any answer yet, the email have been sent the past July the 26th.
This is gonna cost me a lot money as you can imagine
Moreover, The Law in Ontario obligates that a dealer must deliver the vehicle in perfect shape... (apart from the law, I think it is also a question of ethics and seriousness)… it is clear that this is not our case... funny also to see a safety standard certificate document issued with a rear brake in such conditions…
Waiting to read from you soon, in the meantime we send you our
Best Regards,
Andrea Ruaro
VIN: 1HD1BW5157Y071062

I ordered a set of HD Premium Ride Emulsion shocks (Number [protected]) for my '07 Dyna Low Rider at Outpost Harley in Pueblo, CO on June 29, 2018. When I returned to the dealership on July 8th to inform them that I didn't need the parts because I bought a different Harley, the parts rep told me that my order had not arrived yet anyway and they processed a refund.
On July 17th, I returned to the dealership to shop for a helmet. A parts reps said I needed to pay a re-stocking fee for the Premium Ride Emulsion shocks I had ordered on June 29th, but weren't in the store yet. I informed the original sales rep on July 8th that I wanted to cancel the order, received a refund that day, yet the Parts department required me to pay a 20% restocking fee after my refund.
I've done business with this dealership for the last two years, spending more than $11, 000 over that time. This is the first time I was required to pay a re-stocking fee on any special orders I made that had not come into the store.
I don't believe I should have to pay a re-stocking fee on a part that hasn't even been delivered to the dealership yet. I can understand if they had already paid shipping and had to process the part into inventory, but a call to cancel the order should not have incurred a 20% re-stocking fee when it wasn't even in their dealership yet.
Please look into this matter as I would like the re-stocking fee refunded. If a refund is provided, l would continue to frequent this dealership since I like some of the employees there. Otherwise, they've lost a valuable customer.

Avoid this place at all costs if you can. We got lied to and cheated on our bike. I feel bad writing this because its a sales man that did us wrong not the dealership but they don't want to do anything about it so unfortunately they have lost my business as well. If you can AVOID Steve Nichols! He lied to us from the get go but we didn't know that until it was too late now we are stuck with a bike that we are paying way too much for. My fiancé for a 2018 Harley and Steve told him that he would be paying off his other bike completely and come to find out they rolled $2000 into the new loan and didn't pay it off completely. We live over an hour and a half away and had talked to Steve before driving there and he told us that there was nothing to worry about that it was all set to go and we get there and he told us that we had to open a Harley credit card to put the deposit on. First of all we were never told about any deposit he told us that we were all set to go, second he could have told us about all of this before we drove all the way out there. Then when we questioned him about some things on the paper work he tells us about all these add ons that we NEVER agreed to when it comes to the bike and he basically tells us its too late. I am disgusted with all of this and I seriously hope that no one else gets screwed over by him.